I Disbelieve, Therefore I Am
There is one final powerful piece of evidence that atheism is a belief and that is its tendency to act as an identity marker. Many people self-describe as atheists, in a way that non-believers in the tooth fairy, Atlantis or Santa Claus do not. I have never, for example, introduced myself at a party as an “Atoothfairyian” and I have no plans to start doing so. But atheists on the other hand do use their non-belief in God as an identity marker. They proudly write ‘atheist’ or ‘free thinker’ in their social media profiles and the more zealously enthusiastic change their profile pictures to little icons of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Furthermore, atheists show a tendency to gather together in communities centred around their atheism. For example, they hang out online at places like RichardDawkins.Net in order to beat up on believers and remind one another how cool it is to be an atheist. They attend conferences and seminars, they buy books written by atheist gurus like Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris,[11] they have creeds and accuse those who disagree with them of heresy.[12] They are even starting churches. I’m not making this up—in London, England a group of atheists have launched ‘The Sunday Service’ where every week, hundreds of people gather in a deconsecrated Anglican church to sing secular songs (like Stevie Wonder’s ‘Superstition) and hear messages on everything from science to the importance of volunteering. They then sit around and enjoy coffee and biscuits.[13]
Quite how a non-belief, a non-claim, a non-thing has performed so well as an identity marker and as the kernel of community is mystifying. The much simpler suggestion is that atheism is a belief and, just like other beliefs, ranging from the political to the religious, can indeed form part of a person or a community’s identity. Atheism looks like a belief, functions like a belief and behaves like a belief—in short: it is a belief.
But can we go further than this? Could some forms of atheism even be described as a religion? Many scholars think that they can, especially the ‘New Atheist’ form of irreligion that has proven so popular of late. Listen to these words from Stephen Prothero of Boston University:
Atheism is a religion of sorts, or can be. Many atheists are quite religious, holding their views about God with the conviction of zealots and evangelizing with verve … It stands at the center of their lives, defining who they are, how they think, and with whom they associate. The question of God is never far from their minds.[14]
Can atheism really be described as a religion? I believe so. You see, simple disbelief in God does not make one non-religious. As Stephen Prothero points out, plenty of religious people don’t believe in God, including many adherents of Buddhism, Confucianism and some forms of Judaism.[15] The key is what we mean by the word ‘religion’, something scholars have debated for decades. A useful definition was offered by sociologist Émile Durkheim, who defined religion as ‘a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things’.[16] Now before atheists get too antsy, Durkheim was clear that ‘sacred things’ did not necessarily have to be supernatural beings such as gods, but could be anything held dear to the person including ideas or values. It’s really not difficult to see how atheism, with its fetishization of science and human reason fits this definition quite nicely.
Another helpful way to think about the word ‘religion’ is to consider a religion as a system of belief that attempts to answer ultimate questions: Is there a God? Why are we here? How do we determine good and evil? What happens when we die? Atheists certainly claim to have answers to those questions (“No”, “Time plus chance plus natural selection”; “Personal preference”; “We rot” etc.) and so fits the definition well.
Originally posted by googlefudgeChristianity is unique in that it believes in Jesus Christ whom they perceive as God in the flesh.
No, the video [as well as the atheists on this forum] very explicitly don't believe any gods from any religion exist.
However, if you are an English speaker making English language videos on youtube then your prime audience
will largely consist of those for whom the main religion they interact with [either as believers or non-believers] is
going t ...[text shortened]... t too paranoid and desperate to be able to claim that you are persecuted to be able to see that.
Some atheists deny he ever existed, but most believe he did exist, even those not of the faith.
Originally posted by whodeyIslam is unique in that it believes that Jesus Christ, whom they perceive not to be God in the flesh but a prophet instead, will rise from the dead at the end times and defeat a false messiah.
Christianity is unique in that it believes in Jesus Christ whom they perceive as God in the flesh.
Originally posted by whodeyJudaism is unique [out of the Abrahamic religions] in that it believes that Jesus Christ was neither God in the flesh nor a prophet sent by God, and that he was instead simply a false messiah.
Christianity is unique in that it believes in Jesus Christ whom they perceive as God in the flesh.
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Originally posted by whodeySteel is hard. Ice is cold. Fire is hot...
Christianity is unique in that it believes in Jesus Christ whom they perceive as God in the flesh.
Some atheists deny he ever existed, but most believe he did exist, even those not of the faith.
Now we are done stating obvious but completely irrelevant 'facts'...
Did you have a point?
Some atheists deny he ever existed, but most believe he did exist, even those not of the faith.
Pretty much no atheist believes that the person you are thinking of, and is described in the bible
actually existed. There was no son of god walking around performing 'miracles'.
However, most would say that there was probably a person [a Jewish rabbi perhaps] upon whom the Jesus
myth is based. I am not one of those people, and say that there was probably not an actual historical
Jesus of any kind.
Please note, that both statements are couched in the language of probability and not that of certainty.
So I for example would not keel over backwards in surprise if evidence came to light that suggested that
such a figure did actually exist. However unlikely that event might be, I recognise it to be possible, and
completely consistent with my world view.
Originally posted by whodeyNo its an inaccurate and religiously biased statement. Many professing christians do not believe that Jesus christ was God in the flesh and when one examines both the scriptural record and uses logic and reason it becomes rather evident that he was nothing of the sort.
Christianity is unique in that it believes in Jesus Christ whom they perceive as God in the flesh.
Some atheists deny he ever existed, but most believe he did exist, even those not of the faith.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs it a motorsport to not drive motordriven vehicles? Is it a hobby to not collect figurines? Is it a belief to not believe someone else's claims? Is it irrational to not accept as true that which cannot be demonstrated?
I Disbelieve, Therefore I Am
There is one final powerful piece of evidence that atheism is a belief and that is its tendency to act as an identity marker. Many people self-describe as atheists, in a way that non-believers in the tooth fairy, Atlantis or Santa Claus do not. I have never, for example, introduced myself at a party as an “Atoothfairyi ...[text shortened]... plus natural selection”; “Personal preference”; “We rot” etc.) and so fits the definition well.
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god claims. Regarding some claims you may be an agnostic atheist, and for other claims you may be a stronger atheist.
As for identifying as an atheist, I know I don't. You'll only hear me present myself as an atheist if you ask me what supernatural entity I believe in. Outside these discussions with theists, being an atheist has no particular meaning to me. Theists claim they get their worldview from religion. I get my worldview from other sources and myself, and atheism as such never enters into it.
When you see atheists organize themselves, having seminars and fighting over feminist issues and what not, you're witnessing political movements or maybe a need for community support, not atheism gone ideology. A lot of political and social issues in at least some parts of the world goes through churches (traditionally). When you come out as a non-believer you often find yourself attacked and ostracised. Atheist churches could simply be a way to find that sense of group belonging and also be part of a stronger political power that can efficiently counteract theistic pressure.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis is one area I have to agree [and you realise how much I dislike doing that] with RC.
No its an inaccurate and religiously biased statement. Many professing christians do not believe that Jesus christ was God in the flesh and when one examines both the scriptural record and uses logic and reason it becomes rather evident that he was nothing of the sort.
The bible make a whole lot more sense*** if you ditch the trinity, and don't make JC a
1/3rd part of god.
***In relative terms.
Originally posted by C HessTheistic pressure? The church has been defunct in Northern Europe since probably the end of the first world war. Black mental fans burn them in Norway, so did Stalin in Russia. Are we to believe the religion plays some kind of meaningful role in the lives of many of the populace? In what sense can this be an indication of theistic pressure in real terms? If anything the pendulum has swung so far to the secularist cause so that there is naught but ragged vestiges left of a once thriving theistic community. In my own small town i know of about three or four churches that are now a museum, an Indian restaurant and a conversion into private homes. There may be others that I am unaware of. I read a local historical account of some ministers from a little place called Campsie which is situated at the foot of some hills not far from my home. It was details from about 1700-1800's They raised money to build a bigger church because the one that they had was too small to accommodate all the parishes needs. Now the church that they built is entirely empty on Sundays except for a sparse smattering of old ladies. Why this transformation from a vibrant theistic community to one which resembles the emptiness of the tundra is incredibly interesting in itself, but to talk of theistic pressure in Protestant northern Europe is to fight windmills!
Is it a motorsport to not drive motordriven vehicles? Is it a hobby to not collect figurines? Is it a belief to not believe someone else's claims? Is it irrational to not accept as true that which cannot be demonstrated?
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god claims. Regarding some claims you may be an agnostic atheist, and for other claims you may b ...[text shortened]... nd also be part of a stronger political power that can efficiently counteract theistic pressure.
Originally posted by googlefudgeYour magnanimity is duly noted. 😀
This is one area I have to agree [and you realise how much I dislike doing that] with RC.
The bible make a whole lot more sense*** if you ditch the trinity, and don't make JC a
1/3rd part of god.
***In relative terms.
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Originally posted by C HessIt should also be noted that over the ages, churches have picked up a whole bunch of
Is it a motorsport to not drive motordriven vehicles? Is it a hobby to not collect figurines? Is it a belief to not believe someone else's claims? Is it irrational to not accept as true that which cannot be demonstrated?
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god claims. Regarding some claims you may be an agnostic atheist, and for other claims you may b ...[text shortened]... nd also be part of a stronger political power that can efficiently counteract theistic pressure.
important social roles which are beneficial [but nothing to do with religion] and that they
are a large part of why some people go to church.
If we stop believing, and stop going to church, then something else needs to pick up the
social functions that used to be performed by the churches.
Atheism as a movement is part political, in places where religion threatens secularism and
atheists are marginalised, and part social. Replacing some of the functions and support networks
that people lost when they lost their religion. And providing a safe space for those who are
marginalised elsewhere. [This is why these movements are bigger in the USA where atheists
are frequently despised and indeed on occasion persecuted.].
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieI've never heard of atheist gatherings or churches in parts of the world where religion has a weak hold, such as in Norway. I thought this phenomenon was a side effect of the recent rise of atheism in traditionally highly religious countries, where there's a more vitriolic hostility towards atheists, like in the US. It would be ridiculous to form an atheist church in a country where theists mostly keep their beliefs to themselves and out of political discourse.
Theistic pressure? The church has been defunct in Northern Europe since probably the end of the first world war. Black mental fans burn them in Norway, so did Stalin in Russia. Are we to believe the religion plays some kind of meaningful role in the lives of many of the populace? In what sense can this be an indication of theistic pressure in real t ...[text shortened]... in itself, but to talk of theistic pressure in Protestant northern Europe is to fight windmills!
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Originally posted by C HessThere is a pretentious idiot Alain de Botton in the UK who wants to build an atheist 'church'
I've never heard of atheist gatherings or churches in parts of the world where religion has a weak hold, such as in Norway. I thought this phenomenon was a side effect of the recent rise of atheism in traditionally highly religious countries, where there's a more vitriolic hostility towards atheists, like in the US. It would be ridiculous to form an atheist c ...[text shortened]... a country where theists mostly keep their beliefs to themselves and out of political discourse.
because he's enamoured by ceremony and ritual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_for_Atheists
...Religion for Atheists asserts that religions know that people are fundamentally children,
in need of comforting and repeated guidance on how to live. ...
As I often say, there is nothing atheists need agree on or share in common, other than that we don't
believe in the existence of god/s.