21 Nov 08
Originally posted by PalynkaIt was posed to someone who apparently doesn't believe that the creation story of Genesis is an allegory.
By the very nature of allegories, the question itself is misleading. The allegory doesn't need to be scientifically accurate to have value. In that sense, belief in both is compatible.
21 Nov 08
Originally posted by PalynkaI believe in evolution, I just do not accept it in the same way many
Most Christians I know accept evolution. I have no doubt that it is compatible with most mainstream forms of Christianity.
I was just hoping josephw could simply accept that it isn't incompatible.
of those who claim to believe in it do.
Kelly
21 Nov 08
Originally posted by Zahlanzi…intelligent design doesn't have as consequence that creation is perfect.,.….
if i may, i don't agree with your 3. intelligent design doesn't have as consequence that creation is perfect. after all, death of living organisms is an obvious flaw, so if we hold creationism to be true, god from the start created flawed organisms.
also, the consequence of darwinism of imperfect beings appearing is really irrelevant. darwinism doesn't ...[text shortened]... nt of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."
If what you mean by “intelligent design” is intelligent design by god, then doesn’t saying that god created an imperfect design imply that the intellect of god is finite or even imperfect? -why else would he create imperfection?
…after all, death of living organisms is an obvious flaw,.….
But what isn’t so obvious is how to prevent that “flaw“.
Would you say “god” didn’t know how to prevent that “flaw“?
-or would you say “god” deliberately designed us with that flaw and- if so, why? -and more importantly, is that the same reason why he gave us a blind spot despite the fact that how to prevent a blind spot is obvious?
If I was designing a car, I wouldn’t know how to design it so that it would never wear out and last forever. But, if I did, then I may do so but only if I thought that would be a good thing.
BUT, even I would know that putting the electrical connections leading to the light bulb in the headlights in front of the bulbs themselves (instead of behind them) thus making the electrical leads partly block the light coming out of them would be an obvious and totally pointless, stupid and unnecessary design flaw from every point of view -just like a “god” putting the blood vessels in front of our retinas (instead of behind them) so to partly block the light coming in -which ever way you look at it, that would be a stupid thing to do and so I don’t think you can compare that with the fact that we eventually die (if that is what you are doing here) for that reason.
21 Nov 08
2 edits
Originally posted by Bosse de Nagelol, beer is for pansies my friend, if you sat down at a table at all with us scots you would be lucky to make it up off your bum never mind to the next table, afterwards you may decide to do either the butterfly stroke or the back crawl home!😵
The point about theories dying over time is well taken.
Your charity is commendable but I find robbiecarrobie's persistent refusal to address rebuttals of his argument annoying in the extreme. I would limit myself to one pint with him and then go to another table.
21 Nov 08
1 edit
Originally posted by black beetledo you really think so beetle dude!, well no doubt we shall examine the 'evidence', in the course of events, but for now, enough of these wordly cares, for no doubt you and all the other dudes reflect the sentiments of our national poet Robert Burns
Nope, robbie🙂
A whole complex of sciences supports the theory of the evolution due to sientif facts and evidence. This theory is the best we have today regarding the evolution of the species, and this is the reason why it is accepted by so many scientific fields, by philosophers and by scientists. And, I assure you, the very moment that a single fac ...[text shortened]... whole scientific community will take asap the new direction. No ultimate truth, nothing holy 😵
There's no but care on every hand
In every hour that passes oh
That signifies the life of man
and twere not for the lassies oh
-Chorus-
Green grow the rushes oh
Green grow the rushes oh
The sweetest hours that e're I spent
Were spent among the lassies oh
The wordly race may riches chase
And riches still may fly them oh
And when at last they catch them fast
Their hearts can ne'er enjoy them oh
Give me a quiet hour at e'en
My arms around my dearie oh
And warly cares and warly men
May a gae topsy-turvy oh
For you so grave you sneer at this
You're no but senseless asses oh
The wisest man the world e'er saw
Dearly loved the lassies oh
rejoice my friend with your wife and have a wee dram or twa and may your heart be filled with gladness and good cheer! till we meet again, pistols at dawn, for the honor of gentlemanly debate!
(e'en - evening, warly - wordly, gae - go, ne'er - never, twere - were, e'er - ever)
22 Nov 08
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYeap, Burns is superb, and them lassies are fine, and lucky me I enjoy the best one around since '96!
do you really think so beetle dude!, well no doubt we shall examine the 'evidence', in the course of events, but for now, enough of these wordly cares, for no doubt you and all the other dudes reflect the sentiments of our national poet Robert Burns
There's no but care on every hand
In every hour that passes oh
That signifies the life of man
an ...[text shortened]...
(e'en - evening, warly - wordly, gae - go, ne'er - never, twere - were, e'er - ever)
If I ever come to Bonnie Scotland you will set a Burns supper with haggis and kilts and bagpipe and all ye leggedy beastie (I 'll bring the malt)
😵
22 Nov 08
1 edit
Originally posted by black beetlei shall have one of these ready made for you beetle dude
Yeap, Burns is superb, and them lassies are fine, and lucky me I enjoy the best one around since '96!
If I ever come to Bonnie Scotland you will set a Burns supper with haggis and kilts and bagpipe and all ye leggedy beastie (I 'll bring the malt)
😵
http://girlaboutlondon.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/scottish-bar-stool/
😵
22 Nov 08
Originally posted by KellyJayIn what sense do you believe in it? If I remember correctly, you do not believe that man descends from primates (please correct me if I'm wrong).
I believe in evolution, I just do not accept it in the same way many
of those who claim to believe in it do.
Kelly
Although that is not your personal belief, do you believe that such a possibility is also incompatible with the account in Genesis?
22 Nov 08
Originally posted by PalynkaTo evolve does not have to mean to get better, it can be get worse.
In what sense do you believe in it? If I remember correctly, you do not believe that man descends from primates (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Although that is not your personal belief, do you believe that such a possibility is also incompatible with the account in Genesis?
I see in this universe things wearing down much more than I see
them improving. It stands to reason that if life were changing that
would be the trend with it too.
Kelly
22 Nov 08
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayEvolutionists know that quite well that not everything gets 'better', some mutations that are passed on because they are not lethal but causes some problem for the life form in question, they know that happens but that kind of thing is in the minority of mutations. Besides, a lot of what happens in evolution is not from mutations, random stuff, it actually involves intelligence but not the kind you envision. It is intelligence from within the life form itself, when stressed, DNA can respond to the stress in selective expression of genes that counter the stress. That may be a key thing you don't understand about evolution, you have a much too simplistic view of it all. DNA is a kind of computer in its own right, it responds to the environment. Another thing that goes on in DNA is insertion of viral and bacterial genes which are passed on and then becomes part of the gene structure of a form, humans have lots of examples of this and it really has shaken up the DNA community, finding out bacterial DNA can make lateral moves right into our DNA. Things are a LOT more complex on the DNA level than anyone ever thought up to now but they are learning more each day directly related to the ability now to fully decode DNA. That is only the first step however, the next advance is figuring out what all the proteins do that are manufactured by DNA and individual cells. It's a subject so complex it is taking hundreds of years to unravel but it is being done and in another 50 years there will be a much deeper understanding of life in general and maybe even allowing us to make life from non-life, much as you would hate to swallow that one.
To evolve does not have to mean to get better, it can be get worse.
I see in this universe things wearing down much more than I see
them improving. It stands to reason that if life were changing that
would be the trend with it too.
Kelly