Apocalyptic prophecies: Weaponized religion.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Give some sort of reasoning as to why you think it probable that the earth was flat.
Keep in mind that there is no reason to believe that there hasn't always been tectonic activity, and that every planet or moon that we have looked at to date has mountains and valleys.
Can you suggest a process that would lead to a very flat earth?

I didn't say the earth's surface was "very flat", I propose that it was probably flatter than it is now. This is based on the earth being molten, cooling and spinning, when it cooled sufficiently, the plates developed and migrated forming mountains. It's not a difficult premise to imagine but I'm sure you and virus-magnate are the prehistoric geological experts!

Originally posted by sonhouse
A giant alien mountain scraper, wheels 100 km in diameter and axles 300 km wide with some REALLY humungus road scrapers hanging down?

oh my gosh that's just so funny sonhouse. What a wit you are.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You haven't seen the mountains on the moon? They did not come from tectonic activity. They came from asteroid strikes. Early Earth had the same strikes and would have had the same kind of mountains, but they would have been torn down and built back up again by subsequent strikes so early Earth could not have been flat.
BTW, you would have bugs in your computer too if you had several teenagers using it.

There were not many asteroid strikes on earth because God protected it.

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by divegeester
I didn't say the earth's surface was "very flat", I propose that it was probably flatter than it is now.

You strongly suggested a lot flatter than it is now.

This is based on the earth being molten, cooling and spinning, when it cooled sufficiently, the plates developed and migrated forming mountains.
Remember that at that time there would have been a lot more volcanic activity.

It's not a difficult premise to imagine but I'm sure you and virus-magnate are the prehistoric geological experts!
No, were not experts, and neither are you. Your claim however, remains unsubstantiated. Do you have a religious reason, or is it just for the sake of contradicting sonhouse?

Originally posted by sonhouse
All the prophecies of doom in the last 2000 years have not come about and are not about to come about. The human race stumbles along, coming up with solutions to problems just in the nick of time, time after time. I think the current climate crisis is one of those. I may be wrong but if I am it is not religion that will kill us but our own stupidity.

Pr ...[text shortened]... om are just weapons of religion to hold people in sway with fear. Nothing more and nothing less.

Agreed.

And how exactly we managed to negate nuclear war in the "nick of time" , is beyond me. Even the most patriotic observer would have to admit that there was a lot of dumb luck involved.

And, as you may remember, it is said by the "friendly aliens" that all 'evolving races' discover nuclear energy and subsequently blow themselves up nearly everytime. I would've though the human race on planet Earth (at this time) , was definately headed for the same fate.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually its more complicated than that. Oddly enough there is a psychological attraction to Domesday scenarios. Witness all the movies and tv series that have nothing to do with religion or holding people in their sway. We all secretly look forward to the Zombie apocalypse. Of course if it actually happened we would not be so happy, just as we probably w ven lying on the beach on a tropical island is not nearly as pleasurable as its made out to be.

Our minds are more powerful than we are lead to believe.
To maximise the "dulling of human minds" , (so as to stay in power), "control" has put out some very odd messages for our race and especially for the kids growing up.
There have been so many doomsday movies recently, and it's no accident. In all of them there is some apocalyptic, devastating end to our world where only a handful survive,etc. Heck they even re-made "war of the worlds", instead of say "brave new world" , for example.

It's really hard to keep a peaceful outlook when we are constantly bombarded by violence. Don't get me wrong - I love some violent films, but in the movies I watch, there is usually an anti-violence message, in one form or another, which balances up the overall psychology of the people in the movie, whereas those horrible "violence for the sake of violence/entertainment" , leave you all out of whack - where it seems that despite the movies good intentions, it leaves us with very little to be positive about.

"We all secretly look forward to the Zombie apocalypse" . Indeed, and why is that?

Sooner or later we are going to have to face to fact that we have been lied to since we were kids. By our parents, albeit unconciously, by teachers and tv. And when we trundle off to (Christian) church, what do we get? Instead of some balance and solace, we usually get another fire and brimstone speech on how we are all sinners and blah,blah ...

There is something seriously wrong in the west, and this is exemplified by the U.S. , who have no problems legalizing firearms, telling us that we have a right to defend our homes, etc.
If history has taught us anything it's that half-arsed solutions to societal problems won't work. Prohibition. World wars. Burning witches. Etc.
We must attack the root of the problem, which is overwhelmingly psychological, rather than constantly cutting the branches only to have them grow back even stronger.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
"We all secretly look forward to the Zombie apocalypse" . Indeed, and why is that?

The same reason why we do things like bungee jumping. Fear, uncertainty, excitement, they all produce adrenalin and other hormones that are addictive. Most of us prefer to trigger the effects in a safe environment such as a movie theatre, but quite a lot of people like to go for real risks, or simulated risk. Nothing draws customers to a bungee jump better than the news that it once broke.

Originally posted by twhitehead
This is based on the earth being molten, cooling and spinning, when it cooled sufficiently, the plates developed and migrated forming mountains.
Remember that at that time there would have been a lot more volcanic activity.[/b]

Remember that as volcanic activity diminishes the peaks become weathered.

Originally posted by divegeester
Remember that as volcanic activity diminishes the peaks become weathered.

But by then tectonic plate activity has long started. In fact, many of today's mountains are as a result of volcanic activity.
Besides weathering would not have been significant before the oceans formed, and the oceans would not have formed before the earth cooled enought to have tectonic plates.

Originally posted by twhitehead
The same reason why we do things like bungee jumping. Fear, uncertainty, excitement, they all produce adrenalin and other hormones that are addictive. Most of us prefer to trigger the effects in a safe environment such as a movie theatre, but quite a lot of people like to go for real risks, or simulated risk. Nothing draws customers to a bungee jump better than the news that it once broke.

Yes, but my common sense tells me that there is a difference between wanting excitement, etc. in your life, and hoping for an apocalyptic end for many (all) others.
I certainly don't like it when people want to bring me down just because they're having a crap day , or maybe because they are still bullies from highschool - whatever the reason, there is a certain morbidity accosiated with our race.
So do you have any idea why some would include others in their masochistic plans?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yes, but my common sense tells me that there is a difference between wanting excitement, etc. in your life, and hoping for an apocalyptic end for many (all) others.

I think there are two key points to remember:
1. Although we love the idea of risk, our rational brains usually cause us to avoid it in real life. Hence the attraction of movies, roller coasters etc where we can experience the excitement without the negative side effects.
2. Most people who imagine an apocalyptic scenario do not really think about the consequences. Its fun to think of going around shooting zombies, but in reality, if it meant your family had died, or were zombies themselves you would quickly change your mind about how much fun it is. Hence it is only really fun in a movie or computer game.

I remember when I was at University and the first Iraq war started (the invasion of Kuwait). It was an exciting time. There was lots of talk of World War III etc. It was exciting to imagine scenarios of a world war (however unlikely they really were). We didn't really give a whole lot of thought to the real world consequences of such an event and all the death and destruction.

Originally posted by whodey
I don't know of any other ancient religions that have survived, except for maybe Hinduism. To know the odds one must know the myriad of ancient religions. I don't see it to be knowable.

It would seem that religions that can adapt have the greatest chance of survival. As you noted, Hinduism and especially it's spawn, Buddhism, have done well into the modern era, precisely because they adapt in order to remain relevant. Christianity is dangerously on the brink of extinction.
When the boomers have all gone and the old timers have shuffled of this mortal coil, it's hard to see the current generation embracing Christianity like the fundies of the past.
I suspect that these worn out warnings from the bible will be viewed with much pleasure and laughter in much the same way "Reefer Madness" ,an anti-weed propaganda movie has been re-released as a comedy as through subsequent generations of marijuana users have found out first hand what a load of crap all that was.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Its not at all clear whether your are agreeing with sonhouse or disagreeing and if you are disagreeing on what point.
But your earlier statement

... wind back time far enough and there probably wasn't much undulation of the Earth's crust, just a large flat area.

Is definitely incorrect. Although I concede that it is remotely possible th ...[text shortened]... as you suggest and your argument that it was simply showed that you didn't think it through.

And what about the undulations in the ocean. I've heard that the deepest ocean is 3 or more times deeper than Everest.
(to divegeester) Were the ocean depths also not as deep as they are today?

Originally posted by divegeester
What's to think through? There is a reasonable probability that the earth's surface was far less mountainous than it is now.

For the record, I never agree with sonhouse.

"never" ? Ouch... that's a fairly serious statement considering sonhouse seems to be one of the better researched posters on here.

It's a bit dangerous never agreeing with anyone, you get to where you don't even consider the others views because of who's saying it. That's just outright prejudice which is to your detriment.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think there are two key points to remember:
1. Although we love the idea of risk, our rational brains usually cause us to avoid it in real life. Hence the attraction of movies, roller coasters etc where we can experience the excitement without the negative side effects.
2. Most people who imagine an apocalyptic scenario do not really think about the c ...[text shortened]... t of thought to the real world consequences of such an event and all the death and destruction.

I think that the creative aspect of future projection, in whatever form, can ultimately be a good thing for our race. Firstly, with apocalyptic stories, there is the constant reminder that most of us in the future are dead. This seemingly obvious point changes in the mind of the viewer from just another inevitable plot point to a more deeper appraisal of the situation. (Hopefully some empathy kicks in).
Those uni talks you had about the potential for WWIII were exciting no doubt. I had similar talks with friends and I felt as if something was being engaged with , in our brains, that was previously dormant.
My theory is that when one considers the human race being wiped out as a whole, or a habitable world ending thus killing nearly everyone, we think about our world in a more holistic vein. We consider scenarios about human life that we hadn't before.
I think in one sense these real life doomsday scenarios have the potential to change our thinking to a more responsible thinking. We hopefully remind ourselves that we have some influence on Earth's future. The opposite of what these prophecies try to do, ie. to tell us we have absolutely no say in our futures.
As guardians of this planet we have the utmost responsibility to leave the Earth better or at least the same as when we arrived. This point is quite contradictory as regards to capitalism, which is surely due to have an overhaul, lest the very few sink our only ship because they wanted to bring all their material possessions with them.