Originally posted by no1marauderHere's the Christian Creed ...
I don't think the last is a requirement for Christianity. Ever hear of the Unitarians?
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
You're right, how the God/Son/Holy Spirit bit is interpreted does vary from Catholic/Protestant to Orthodox to smaller sects. But I think you'd have to agree, most Christians believe in the Trinity stuff, so it would probably be fair to say it's a common component of a typical Christian's set of beliefs.
Originally posted by amannionOriginally posted by amannion
Faith that Jesus Christ is the Saviour.
Faith that he died for us.
Faith that he will come again.
Faith that he's a part of a trinity of supernatural beings.
What else?
Faith that Jesus Christ is the Saviour.
Faith that he died for us.
Faith that he will come again.
Faith that he's a part of a trinity of supernatural beings.
What else?
These are all important points, but the final point of reference is the Bible. Only those who live according to the teachings of the Bible have the right to affirm that they are christians.
Jesus makes it very clear:
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
How is God's will revealed to us? By his written word, the Bible.
Conclusion: It's easy to say that one is a christian, but that's not at all the garantee that you're saved.
Do you follow me?
Originally posted by louisXIVWhat about the Christians who were around before the Bible?
Originally posted by amannion
[b]Faith that Jesus Christ is the Saviour.
Faith that he died for us.
Faith that he will come again.
Faith that he's a part of a trinity of supernatural beings.
What else?
These are all important points, but the final point of reference is the Bible. Only those who live according to the teachings of the Bib ...[text shortened]... a christian, but that's not at all the garantee that you're saved.
Do you follow me?[/b]
being a christian is a matter of faith, not of laws. read Galatians for more on this. many RC's (and, don't get me wrong, other denominations too. one of my flat mates commented that the pastor in "from dusk till dawn" should "joing the church of scotland" after he's lost his faith...) are like the religious leaders of Jesus' time. they live by rules and regulations, not by faith.
baptism is the new circumcision.
thankfully, it hurts less...
The point that everyone seems to be missing is that words only have meaning when enough people agree on what that meaning is. A Christian is someone who fits the meaning of the word as held by a significant number of people. If there is a significant number of people with a different understanding of the word 'Christian' then one can be both Christian and not Christian.
Similarly to use the words 'the faith' (as one poster did) implies an agreement between people as to what that is. This is not the case. There are many different beliefs by many different people who call themselves Christian.
If you wish to discuss whether Roman Catholics (is that what was meant by Catholics - a much broader term) fit your own personal definition of Christian or some other persons definition then those definitions must first be given.
Even the agnostics of old which most modern day Christians would consider very unchristian, still went by that name.
As an atheist I consider anyone who professes to be Christian or who professes to follow Christs teachings to be a Christian whatever their particular interpretation is.
Interestingly belief in the divinity of Christ is not sufficient as some so called 'devil worshipers' believe that but are not 'followers of Christ' and would not be considered Christian.
Originally posted by twhiteheadCan't you have atheist Christians then?
As an atheist I consider anyone who professes to be Christian or who professes to follow Christs teachings to be a Christian whatever their particular interpretation is.
The term 'Christian' has a well-understood (if not well-articulated) meaning that is more than just "anyone who calls himself a Christian".
Originally posted by lucifershammerFrom wikipedia
What else does Catholic (uppercase 'C'😉 mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic
"Among those who regard themselves as "Catholic", but not "Roman Catholic" , are Anglicans, and some small groups such as the Old Catholic Church, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Independent Catholic, the Ancient Catholic and Liberal Catholic Churches, as well as Lutherans (though the latter prefer the lower-case "c," and, like Anglicans, stress that they are both Protestant and Catholic)."
There is good reason for using the word "Roman".
Originally posted by lucifershammerI suppose you could have atheist Christians. I believe that there have been bishops who were not too sure that the reserection took place.
Can't you have atheist Christians then?
The term 'Christian' has a well-understood (if not well-articulated) meaning that is more than just "anyone who calls himself a Christian".
I would disagree that it is a 'well-understood' term. For a start that would make you wonder where this thread came from. I do know for a fact that some 'Christians' claim that some other groups of 'Christians' are not Christian.
Originally posted by amannionSo there is no prove from the Bible.
It's not from the bible.
It's the interpretations from the bible and the teachings of the early Christians that develop the Christian beliefs.
So what does this faith based on if not from the Bible?
What if the early christians were wrong.
Originally posted by twhiteheadThanks.
From wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic
"Among those who regard themselves as "Catholic", but not "Roman Catholic" , are Anglicans, and some small groups such as the Old Catholic Church, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Independent Catholic, the Ancient Catholic and Liberal Catholic Churches, as well as Lutherans (though the oth Protestant and Catholic)."
There is good reason for using the word "Roman".
EDIT: Although, with the Anglicans, they've only recently started calling themselves 'Anglo-Catholic'.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI didn't say "unanimously understood". Anyone can start a thread disputing whether Blacks are human beings or not -- that doesn't put the meaning of 'human being' (or whether Blacks are human beings) under dispute.
I suppose you could have atheist Christians. I believe that there have been bishops who were not too sure that the reserection took place.
I would disagree that it is a 'well-understood' term. For a start that would make you wonder where this thread came from. I do know for a fact that some 'Christians' claim that some other groups of 'Christians' are not Christian.
Members of certain Churches and denominations (e.g. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, other mainline Protestant denominations) have long been considered 'Christian' without providing an exhaustive dictionary definition of the term.