@fmf saidNot even remotely.
Is the Christian notion of "salvation" really so tenuous and so brittle that it can be endangered merely by being exposed to dissent, disagreement and the ideas of people who lack belief?
In fact, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".
@rajk999 saidThat's just more of your "wresting" with the scriptures.
Well here is your chance to prove it.. instead of running your mouth, demonstrate that you know what you talking about, instead of making ridiculous doctrines that are not in the bible.You say ... the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ. ...
... every sin the believer ever committed, past, present and future was forgiven.
This is not in the Gospel message of ...[text shortened]... ESTROYED, and WILL NOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God. Nobody says anything about being unsaved.
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
You are unlearned and unstable.
@FMF
<<Is the Christian notion of "salvation" really so tenuous and so brittle that it can be endangered merely by being exposed to dissent, disagreement and the ideas of people who lack belief?>>
Where did you get that idea?
The challenge is in explaining something spiritual to someone who’s only natural and carnal.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
(1 Corinthians 2:14)
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@josephw saidActually the truth is my doctrine comes from the mouth of Christ. Yours is from your church.
That's just more of your "wresting" with the scriptures.
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
You are unlearned and unstable.
So I post it again that you said
. ... every sin the believer ever committed, past, present and future was forgiven.
Where is that in the bible... clearly it is not there otherwise you would have posted the reference instead of blabbering like a retard.
Then you say There is nothing in the narrative of scripture that says a saved individual can become unsaved...
Nobody says that, so you are arguing with yourself. Paul said that a saved person, a born again person, a justified by Christ person, a Christian Saint in Christ CAN BE DESTROYED, and WILL NOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God. Nobody says anything about being unsaved.
Where is your support from the bible? You have none.
@rajk999 saidYou have to ignore a lot of the Holy Bible, including what Jesus Christ said, to support your doctrine.
Actually the truth is my doctrine comes from the mouth of Christ. Yours is from your church.
So I post it again that you said
. ... every sin the believer ever committed, past, present and future was forgiven.
Where is that in the bible... clearly it is not there otherwise you would have posted the reference instead of blabbering like a retard.
Then yo ...[text shortened]... . Nobody says anything about being unsaved.
Where is your support from the bible? You have none.
You have a natural, carnal mindset.
That’s why you reject the importance of faith, the importance of prayer, the role and power of God’s Holy Spirit in indwelling a believer, the significance of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and His shed blood, what the New Covenant is all about, the importance of Holy Communion and on and on.
Anything beyond “Do good works, Jesus will judge” is either beyond your ability to understand or deliberately mocked by you to lead people astray.
You’re still in the Old Testament - only with ramped-up definitions of sin and commandments and no animal sacrifices to atone for those sins.
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@pb1022 saidDo you have any references to help out JosephW here ?
You have to ignore a lot of the Holy Bible, including what Jesus Christ said, to support your doctrine.
You have a natural, carnal mindset.
That’s why you reject the importance of faith, the importance of prayer, the role and power of God’s Holy Spirit in indwelling a believer, the significance of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and His shed blood, what the New Cov ...[text shortened]... with ramped-up definitions of sin and commandments and no animal sacrifices to atone for those sins.
He said . ... every sin the believer ever committed, past, present and future was forgiven.
I answered with - Where is that in the bible...
He then said There is nothing in the narrative of scripture that says a saved individual can become unsaved...
I replied with - Nobody says that, so you are arguing with yourself. Paul said that a saved person, a born again person, a justified by Christ person, a Christian Saint in Christ CAN BE DESTROYED, and WILL NOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God. Nobody says anything about being unsaved.
If you have references to support those statements then please post them. Thanks
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@rajk999 saidWhen you address my points - about why you ignore all those elements of the Holy Bible that I identified a few minutes ago - is when I’ll address your points.
Do you have any references to help out JosephW here ?
He said . ... every sin the believer ever committed, past, present and future was forgiven.
I answered with - Where is that in the bible...
He then said There is nothing in the narrative of scripture that says a saved individual can become unsaved...
I replied with - Nobody says that, so you ...[text shortened]... t being unsaved.
If you have references to support those statements then please post them. Thanks
I’m tired of you ignoring salient, doctrinal points that I bring up and then demanding I answer your points - and in this case, respond on someone else’s behalf.
Did Jesus Christ not speak about the importance of all those points I brought up?
Why do you ignore them?
@pb1022 saidOk thanks. Got ya.
When you address my points - about why you ignore all those elements of the Holy Bible that I identified a few minutes ago - is when I’ll address your points.
I’m tired of you ignoring salient, doctrinal points that I bring and then demanding I answer your points - and in this case, respond on someone else’s behalf.
Did Jesus Christ not speak about the importance of all those points I brought up?
Why do you ignore them?
@pb1022 saidWhatever .. When I say something and you ask for supporting references I always provide it. Also I do not cross question anyone like you do all the time. So there is something not right with your church doctrine if you cannot provide clear biblical support for it.
Unfortunately, I don’t think you get anything when it comes to the Holy Bible.
But your vain, self-righteous doctrine is more important to you than the Holy Bible.
That’s why you never address anything in the Bible that contradicts your doctrine.
@rajk999 saidActs 2:38
Do you have any references to help out JosephW here ?
He said . ... every sin the believer ever committed, past, present and future was forgiven.
I answered with - Where is that in the bible...
He then said There is nothing in the narrative of scripture that says a saved individual can become unsaved...
I replied with - Nobody says that, so you ...[text shortened]... t being unsaved.
If you have references to support those statements then please post them. Thanks
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 4
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Do you think when God forgives a sinner, all He is doing just forgiving those you have done up to this point in time? It's either all, none, but never just some abiding in Christ we are forgiven walking in grace. Outside of Christ, we are condemned already; the fake Jesus you made up to suit that doctrine you claim is Biblical doesn't line up with the rest of the Bible; God is not a God of confusion, and you are confused. Jesus didn't come to take away the world's sins, up to a specific point in each person's life; we would all fall if that were true.
So when the Bible says we are saved by grace through faith and that we are not saved because of works of righteousness, why do you and your fake Jesus say the very opposite?
@kellyjay saidNow it's all or none ... lol
Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 4
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. ...[text shortened]... e not saved because of works of righteousness, why do you and your fake Jesus say the very opposite?
Paul said to saved Christian Saints that if they live in sin they will not inherit the kingdom of God. So clearly it is
- not All or none
- not osas
- saved by grace Christians can be destroyed because of sin ..
so good luck with that nonsense doctrine.
@josephw saidAll your future "sins" are forgiven? You can't get "unsaved"? What an absolutely delightful thing to believe about yourself!
At the moment of salvation every sin the believer ever committed, past, present and future was forgiven.
Done deal. There is nothing in the narrative of scripture that says a saved individual can become unsaved.
@pb1022 saidI got it from you. This thread was started because of something daft you said on another thread.
@FMF
<<Is the Christian notion of "salvation" really so tenuous and so brittle that it can be endangered merely by being exposed to dissent, disagreement and the ideas of people who lack belief?>>
Where did you get that idea?
@fmf saidIt sure is!
All your future "sins" are forgiven? You can't get "unsaved"? What an absolutely delightful thing to believe about yourself!
Why do you think Jesus Christ is described as a Saviour?
Why do you think the Gospel of Jesus Christ is “good news?”