@fmf saidLife is complex; hairs do require being split. God changes the one who comes to Him in earnest, taking Him at His word, asking for His grace through faith. As I was pointing out to someone recently that walking with the Lord, more and more things become apparent that have to do with selfishness in our lives were previously understood; they were just a normal part of living. Sin are acts, but it is also a powerful force; God forwarned Cain before the first murder that sins desire was contrary to Him, He must master it. The power of sin is broken and condemned in us in Christ; walking out our lives in the Spirit is the only way to be right with God and not walking out our lives constantly fulling the desires of our flesh.
If this is different from me saying: "The "victory" is that your "evil" is supposedly forgiven because of Jesus's sacrifice and you will therefore have everlasting life" then so be it, but you are probably splitting hairs.
All of that is not saying we cannot change our lives by acts of will; people do that all of the time. The evil we do by us, you and I, and everyone else had to be answered for, God is good, and just this is in no way something that could just be overlooked in some and not in others which is what I think your complaint is suggesting here.
Jesus laid down His life for us, calls us to Himself, to the Father, trusting in what He did for us gives us redemption. God gets all of the glory for that; it is not me being more special than the next guy; all of us can come to God when He calls us to Him, and people do. If you want nothing to do with that, you don't get it; if you want to get right in your way, you will not make it; if you want to play-act with God keeping your heart far from Him, He will profess He didn't know you.
I don't believe any of this is new to you or things you have not seen me say before.
Genesis 4:6-8
English Standard Version
The Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”
Cain spoke to Abel his brother. And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him.
@fmf saidRecognizing sin is simply understanding what is good and comparing it to what we do; Paul wrote about it and the Law how the Law was given to show us the nature of sin. Now, if you refuse the Law, you hide from the one thing that shows you sin as it is. Still, there is no escaping sin; your mouth with an excuse you or condemn you by the various things you say when you condemn and excuse things as you do the things you condemn and excuse yourself showing you knew it was wrong and you did it anyway.
Morality as it pertains to human interaction. "Sin" and morality sometimes overlap, but much of the time they don't. I don't really care how much KellyJay or you say you "sin" or don't "sin". I think "sin" only exists in the minds of theists.
Romans 7:7
The Law and Sin
What then shall we say? That the Law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the Law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
@pb1022 saidWitness Lee (sonship's false preacher) said Christians (both Catholic and Protestant) were in an organization of Satan.
I’m saying you’re committing blasphemy by saying *Christians* are evil.
Have you called that out as blasphemy?
@kellyjay saidYour "evil" doesn't have to be "answered for" by you, though, does it, because you believe that Jesus has "answered for" your "sins" already.
The evil we do by us, you and I, and everyone else had to be answered for, God is good, and just this is in no way something that could just be overlooked in some and not in others which is what I think your complaint is suggesting here.
sonship ~ an OSAS Christian like you ~ was wittering on on another thread yesterday about how he will face punishment "in the future" for his "sins".
But of course it's a kind of preening false/ disingenuous modesty: and he has, of course, blanked out the question, twice ["What punishmentwill you face, sonship?"].
Why? Because he believes he is already irrevocably "saved" regardless of his "sins". It's all just doubleduckspeak and doubleplusgoodthink.
The dogma is the absolute epitome of not taking responsibility for one's actions.
@pb1022 saidAll humans, irrespective of their belief in God, occasionally do bad things.
Sure, no one denies that Christians do not occasionally still sin, but it should over time be significantly less compared to their pre-Christian selves - not through self effort but through the transforming power of God’s Holy Spirit in changing their hearts and, subsequently, their behavior.
It is our own moral compasses that dictate how frequent these lapses in character occur. Your moral compass may be tied up with your religious beliefs, but I don't accept this means you 'sin' less or will eventually 'sin' less. The world simply doesn't support that hypothesis.
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@fmf saidPaul strongly condemned that notion here. All people face the same judgment.
The dogma is the absolute epitome of not taking responsibility for one's actions.
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: (Romans 2:6-10 KJV)
@fmf saidBecoming a new creature in Christ means we are born again; God condemns the sin in us, making the payment for it by His sacrifice as we live our lives in Christ. We turn to Him away from the power of sin and death and live our lives in Christ, so the sin in us is condemned in Christ and our lives redeemed. This is not an I can now go out and live as I please sinning however I want because God is required to forgive me! That person has not turned to God, and they are making Jesus' sacrifice a meaningless gesture in that person's life who chooses sin over the Spirit of God. If they do that, they are attempting to disguise themself as righteous while living a life of sin. All that does is make a mockery of what Jesus did, putting stumbling blocks in front of those that are now thinking if that is a Christian I want no part of that.
Nevertheless, by their own testimony, and their own definition of "sin", they continue to "sin".
That is, after all, why you say you believe you are "saved" by "Grace".
I don't see how Christians' talk about how they are supposedly "led by the Spirit" translates into anything that mitigates their self-professed "sinful nature".
That isn't an excuse to shun God, because if hypocrites are what is standing between you and God. Then even the hypocrites are closer to God than you, if you know enough to know they are hypocrites you know. Even people who live for the Lord can fall short and sin, they appear no different in those moments, but confessing our sins to the Lord and repentance is a different outcome from just thinking God doesn't see, or doesn't care, no big deal.
@kellyjay saidYour posts are complete nonsense and contrary to the bible. Becoming a new creature, is a good start. That is correct. Then you omit all that Paul and the Apostles spoke of what it entails to be a new creature, and the lifestyle and the righteousness and good works that this new creature in Christ MUST LIVE BY.
Becoming a new creature in Christ means we are born again; God condemns the sin in us, making the payment for it by His sacrifice as we live our lives in Christ. We turn to Him away from the power of sin and death and live our lives in Christ, so the sin in us is condemned in Christ and our lives redeemed. This is not an I can now go out and live as I please sinning however ...[text shortened]... repentance is a different outcome from just thinking God doesn't see, or doesn't care, no big deal.
Instead ike most Christians your focus is on what Jesus did, and Jesus is your righteousness, and Jesus saved me, Jesus justified me, Jesus purged my old sins, Jesus forgives all my sins, Jesus died for me. There is NO VIRTUE is blabbering about all that and it is simple a diversion away from the teachings of Christ and the Apostles because you never speak of what lifestyle is necessary for professing Christian Saints. who are a new creature. Saying you have the Holy Spirit and means nothing and as Paul said even those with the Holy Spirit who live in sin are going to cast out of the Kingdom of God.
You ignore those things and Paul said Christians who ignore these things and continue with a life of sin will be destroyed. You do not preach the doctrine that leads to life. You preach death and damnation
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@kellyjay saidI don't believe the God figure that you describe exists. So I am not "shunning him" ~ I am not "shunning" the Islamic God figure either. And I am not making "excuses" for not being a member of your religion, KellyJay. Christian "hypocrites" have nothing to do with it. You are barking up the wrong rhetorical tree.
That isn't an excuse to shun God, because if hypocrites are what is standing between you and God. Then even the hypocrites are closer to God than you, if you know enough to know they are hypocrites you know.
@kellyjay saidSo, does what you are saying mean you can you still go to "Hell" because of your "sins" despite your faith in Jesus?
God condemns the sin in us, making the payment for it by His sacrifice as we live our lives in Christ. We turn to Him away from the power of sin and death and live our lives in Christ, so the sin in us is condemned in Christ and our lives redeemed. This is not an I can now go out and live as I please sinning however I want because God is required to forgive me!
@fmf saidI'm saved by grace through faith; we are saved in Christ abiding in Him. Can people walk away? Yes. As I have answered you before.
So, does what you are saying mean you can you still go to "Hell" because of your "sins" despite your faith in Jesus?
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@fmf saidHow many times have you asked that same question. ... lol 😀
If by "walking away" you mean losing their faith, I am not talking about that.
Can you - KellyJay, according to your beliefs - still go to "Hell" because of your "sins" even though you still believe in Jesus?
You will hear it again .. saved by Grace .... .. saved by Grace .... .. saved by Grace .... .. saved by Grace .... .. saved by Grace .... .. saved by Grace ....
@fmf saidWalking away from Jesus Christ, abiding in Him means you are in a relationship with Him; you cannot walk away from someone you have never met. You can lose your faith or your trust in things, objects, people, organizations, and so on; that is all an internal trust issue; what you once thought trustworthy you no longer do. I've asked you repeatedly what you mean by it when you say you lost your faith. It again isn't like I cannot find my car keys; something changed.
If by "walking away" you mean losing their faith, I am not talking about that.
Can you - KellyJay, according to your beliefs - still go to "Hell" because of your "sins" even though you still believe in Jesus?
I've given you countless examples of those who believe in Him and ended up being cast into Hell. You are still asking the same question after you have received answers; this is just spewing.
@kellyjay saidI am not talking about people losing their faith.
Walking away from Jesus Christ, abiding in Him means you are in a relationship with Him; you cannot walk away from someone you have never met. You can lose your faith or your trust in things, objects, people, organizations, and so on; that is all an internal trust issue; what you once thought trustworthy you no longer do. I've asked you repeatedly what you mean by it when you say you lost your faith. It again isn't like I cannot find my car keys; something changed.