@sonship saidThe moral ideas are what matter.
So, behind this rationale you do avoid claiming ANY specific words were spoken by either Jesus or Mohammed I suppose. You have left the obscure vagueness of the issue so that exactly which words of either man cannot be taken a position on as authentic.
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@sonship saidNo, you do not have to take my word for it, or indeed for anything. That is an odd misreading of the nature of our conversation. We are merely sharing our perspectives.
I just have to take you word for it that somehow SOME of the words of Jesus you believe profitable and OTHER words (maybe NOT spoken by Jesus) are not.
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@sonship saidI don't subscribe to any of the supernatural aspects of it. How else was a figure like that supposed to have framed his ideas? He was a Jewish rabbi. Or at least that is how he was portrayed by the writers of the NT.
Take Matthew 5:3, the very first of the Sermon on the Mount's words.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens."
Do you believe Jesus spoke that? The recorder says "And opening His mouth, He taught them, saying . . ." (v.2)
Do you believe Jesus opened His mouth and spoke that first sentence ?
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens."
I did so just a few days ago in direct response to a question you asked me. So, yes. I see this as more low-integrity behaviour by you.
Back to the low-integrity thing.
OK, I do not see you then as low-integrity.
I see you right now as NO integrity.
So we've come to this impasse then.
Since there seems mutual disrespect I see no need to engage.
I'll go back to writing people who I respect (if they are there).
And you go back to saying I should go start a blog.
For others having to read this. I do have to suspend to take care of some other matters. Blog at you latter.
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@sonship saidThis conversation we have been having is well suited to a message board like this.
And you go back to saying I should go start a blog.
The stuff you produce that belongs on a blog is the massive blocks of unoriginal stuff you recite or copy paste, sometimes 9 or 10 or more posts in a row, where you seem to be posing as some kind of self- annointed preacher or mystic, where you bristle when people interrupt you.
THAT'S the kind of stuff you should air on a blog. Not exchanges like the one we are having
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@FMF
You have to me NO integrity, NO decency, NO moral compass to brag on here or anywhere else.
You have no respect for me either.
So let's just keep it that way.
You do your thing, I'll do mine.
I don't have to respond to you.
@sonship saidIn this context, how is perishing akin to eternal punishment? And why is it terrible to face eternity without Jesus if one has indeed perished?
By all means one should heed the words of Christ believe in Him as the Son of God, the Savior, the Lord who is able to save is to the uttermost.
[b]"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life.
For God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but that ...[text shortened]... mercy on any enemies I might have. For to be eternally lost is not something I would wish on anyone.
You can't punish a dead person who has no awareness of eternity, as a result of having perished. (Though I understand it would make your eternity more enjoyable thinking that was the case).
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In this context, how is perishing akin to eternal punishment? And why is it terrible to face eternity without Jesus if one has indeed perished?
John 3:16 is a context. But it is not the only context.
One might conclude"would not perish" to mean physical death if one insisted John 3:16 was the ONLY context for result not receiving eternal life.
Whether we like it or not the greater context contains indications of God's power and authority to extract misery upon the judged AFTER he has "perished" in the limited sense of physical death.
What is the point of the warning of Jesus concerning whom one really ought to fear?
And I say to you My friends, Do not fear those who kill the body and afterward have nothing more that they can do." (Luke 12:4)
Human beings can cause the body to "perish" in the sense of physical death.
Afterwards there is nothing more that they can do.
"But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after killing, has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you fear this One." (v.5)
Greater dread should be had towards God who has greater authority.
Greater fear should be rendered to God who has greater power.
After man can cause you to "perish" in the sense of physical death God with greater ability can further punish by throwing the dead one into an eternal garbage dump symbolized by "Gehenna".
Since no one living has any experiential knowledge of this punishment AFTER death, a symbolic analogy of the Jerusalem smoldering dump "Gehenna" Christ uses to get the point across.
This is a positive teaching from Jesus on fearing God.
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You can't punish a dead person who has no awareness of eternity, as a result of having perished. (Though I understand it would make your eternity more enjoyable thinking that was the case).
The teaching I just showed you shows Jesus had in mind the need to be in dread of God's authority to punish beyond physical death.
The latter part of your comment is designed to portray those who believe Christ's words as sadists who enjoy this ultimate power and authority of God to inflict everlasting destruction.
The jab does nothing to change the fact that God can torment the lost everlastingly. I won't much speak to it here because I consider it a red herring.
The attitude of the saved toward the lost I think is another issue.
This thread is about the attitude that should be had toward suffering eternal destruction. Avoid it by coming to the Savior.