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@Rajk999
I know Revelation chapters 2 and 3 better than you do.
Those promises to those who overcome in the seven churches is concerning REWARD during the millennial kingdom.
A warning to some who are defeated would have their names erased from the book of life must pertain to not enjoying the REWARD of the thousand year reign.
Dan as a tribe whose name was temporarily removed from the list of the twelve tribes. That was for the discipline of their idolatry. A temporary erasing of mark of some kind put beside those not rewarded during the kingdom age is meant to the defeated who did not overcome in the church in Sardis.
Revelation 20:15 is a warning not about the millennial kingdom before the eternal age. It is a warning related to the eternal age AFTER the millennial kingdom.
Those who suffered having their names erased from the book of life because of defeat will have the erasing mark removed or otherwise restore the indication that they are to receive eternal life.
Paul told us in principle that some would be saved yet so as through fire.
Pertaining to the millennial kingdom and beyond:
" If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)
To have your name temporarily erased from the book of life (Rev. 3:5) is to be saved eternally yet suffer loss during the millennial kingdom.
And now I expect your response will be mostly emotional, condemning, and vitriolic because you can't refute what I explained.
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@sonship saidWhy dont you shut your stupid mouth, moron.
@Rajk999
You are making yourself look even more stupid.
My appearance is not at stake. That the readers understand they should Avoid Eternal Punishment, that's what matters most.
You're teaching them recklessly not to worry about this critical need of avoidance.
How did Jesus say to avoid eternal punishment?
You dont know and you tell people what Jesus says is not about them.
You are a fool and those who follow you are fools.
Its in Matt 25. Jesus said to be like the sheep, not the goats
Your doctrine encourages people to do like the goats.
Fools follow you and end up like the goats facing etenal punishment
The wise man follow Christ and is like the sheep. They get eternal life.
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@sonship saidNothing to refute. You are leaving about the very next verse where Paul said that they who defile themselves, will be DESTROYED. Like how Jesus in Matt 10 says there are some who GOD EWILL DESTROY IN HELL.
Dan as a tribe whose name was temporarily removed from the list of the twelve tribes. That was for the discipline of their idolatry. A temporary erasing of mark of some kind put beside those not rewarded during the kingdom age is meant to the defeated who did not overcome in the church in Sardis.
Revelation 20:15 is a warning not about the millennial kingdom b ...[text shortened]... ponse will be mostly emotional, condemning, and vitriolic because you can't refute what I explained.
People by now, know you are a deceitful liar.
@sonship saidWhy would such a divine being want to extract such misery? I think that is the question you need to spend some time with. Where is the positive teaching in that?
Whether we like it or not the greater context contains indications of God's power and authority to extract misery upon the judged AFTER he has "perished" in the limited sense of physical death.
'Fear' of God is clearly a tactic of ancient writers to attract converts. It is an entirely human strategy.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidNo normal thinking person needs to fear God regarding eternal torment. Even those who know no law [Romans 2] will be judged by what they do according to their conscience. The only people who need to be fearful are the ones who do evil. Only then would God exact vengeance on those who kill or abuse others
Why would such a divine being want to extract such misery? I think that is the question you need to spend some time with. Where is the positive teaching in that?
'Fear' of God is clearly a tactic of ancient writers to attract converts. It is an entirely human strategy.
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Why would such a divine being want to extract such misery? I think that is the question you need to spend some time with. Where is the positive teaching in that?
I hear that. I am not a piece of stone without feelings.
But when I wrote pages upon pages and posts upon posts of God's positive purposes of building man into Himself, deifying, transforming, and glorifying man into the image of Christ, bringing in a new heaven and new earth with total righteousness, and mingling with the saved according to His plan BEFORE the creation of the universe, uniting the church with the triune God . . . how welcomed were these POSITIVE aspects of God's work by you ?
There was not much positive reception from you who now say God's way is too negative.
@sonship saidWhy would one be "positive" about a God figure whose "perfect morality" is demonstrated by him torturing people?
There was not much positive reception from you who now say God's way is too negative.
If we were to evaluate a father's raisng of his children and seek to extol his virtues, wouldn't the fact that he burned his children on their arms and faces and their eyes and genitals with lit cigarettes - as a form of punishment and revenge for disobedience - wouldn't that make saying "positive" things about him morally fatuous and irrelevant?
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Its in Matt 25. Jesus said to be like the sheep, not the goats
Your doctrine encourages people to do like the goats.
When the Son of Man sets up "the throne of His glory" in Jerusalem He will commence the millennial age. The elect of Israel will be the priests and the overcoming sons of God will be the kings.
They have to have SOMEONEs to reign over and to serve. Who will they serve and who will they reign over? They well reign over those nations whom God has brought THROUGH the great tribulation to be transferred into the next age.
They will not reign over each other.
1.) Who are the ones who will be reigning?
Christ AND " these, the least of My brothers" .
Christ and the brothers of Christ down to the least who are rewarded to co-reign with Him will reign and serve the surviving nations.
2.) Then WHO are those OVER whom they will reign?
The sheep people of the living nations who pass through the great tribulation and did not persecute the Lord's brothers down to the least of them. Rather they feared God the Creator and did not follow the Antichrist to harass the refugees, the destitute, suffering, unable to buy or sell, imprisoned brothers of Christ.
3.) Who are the goats that do not pass into the next millennial age BUT go to the eternal fire?
Those nations passing through the great tribulation who followed Antichrist to harass, persecute, kill, imprison, starve out those whom they regarded as a public nuisance and enemies of the state under Antichrist. That is the Lord's brothers down to the least of them.
Neither the sheep nations or the goat nations realized that what they were doing they were doing to the soon approaching King who was to rule the earth. Those who assisted the refugees did not realize they were doing so to the King Himself.
Those who followed Antichrist to harass the refugees did not realize that they were doing these things to the King Himself.
The sheep enter into eternal life. It does not say enternal life enters into them.
Rather they are transferred to be restored to the blessed state Adam was in before he fell.
The goats go to what has been "prepared for the devil and his angels" which implies the devil and his angels are not yet there. The punishment has been prepared for them. The ill treaters of the Lord's brothers down to the least of them follow Antichrist into the eternal punishment.
The reaction of the sheep nations and the goat nations is not according to the Gospel of Christ. It is according to "an eternal gospel" to fear God the Creator announced by angel/s supernaturally from the heavens at the DARKEST and most chaotic upheaval time of the last three and one half years of this age - the great tribulation.
This passage Matthew 25:32-46 has to be read in conjunction with Revelation 14. Particularly it has to be understood in light of the prophecy of an angel announcing an eternal gospel to fear God the Creator during the upheaval of the natural world. This supernatural upheaval and announcement from the angel in the sky to counter the proclamation of the Antichrist that he is god and should be worshipped. And all those who do not are to be starved out, harassed, worn out, worn down, persecuted, imprisioned, left sick, forced not to be able to buy or sell or survive.
"And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to announce to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and tribe and tongue and people, saying with a loud voice. . . . "
Is the angel preaching about Christ? No. The angelic preacher is preaching about God the Creator who is turning the natural world upside down in a sigh of impending world judgment.
"Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who has made heaven and earth and the sea and the springs of waters." (Rev. 14:6,7)
This "eternal gospel" announced not by men but supernaturally by the voice of an angel in the sky, will come to counteract Antichrist's proclamation from the temple in Jerusalem that he is the god all the world must worship. And if you do not you cannot LIVE or SURVIVE for he holds all economic welfare in his hands.
The hour of His judgment concludes at the judgment of the living nations (sheep and goats) at the beginning of the one thousand year millennial reign of the Son of Man from His throng of glory in Jerusalem (Matthew 25:36).
@fmf saidThis analogy is perhaps worth a thread of its own.
If we were to evaluate a father's raisng of his children and seek to extol his virtues, wouldn't the fact that he burned his children on their arms and faces and their eyes and genitals with lit cigarettes - as a form of punishment and revenge for disobedience - wouldn't that make saying "positive" things about him morally fatuous and irrelevant?
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@sonship saidJesus said:
@Rajk999
Its in Matt 25. Jesus said to be like the sheep, not the goats
Your doctrine encourages people to do like the goats.
And these [the goats] shall go away into everlasting punishment:
but the righteous [the sheep] into life eternal. (Matthew 25:46 KJV)
Sonship said:
The goats get a temporary punishment, its not everlasting.
The sheep dont really get life eternal.
Thats contrary to Christ
Your doctrine is the complete opposite of Christ.
You ignore Christ
You speak against Christ
You ridicule Christ
You belittle the commandments of Christ
You refer to Christ teachings as legalistic Pharasical works salvation
Nothing about your teachings is remotely connected to Christ
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Sonship said:
The goats get a temporary punishment, its not everlasting.
The sheep dont really get life eternal.
No I did NOT say that the goats went into temporary punishment.
You have to cool your head down and GET what it is that is being SAID.
You have to have a more sober mind.
If you are going to criticize an interpretation you have to first understand what
it is that is being taught.
I do say the sheep are not regenerated as born again sons of God.
But they enter into an everlasting life.
They are restored nations over whom the regenerated sons of God reign.
They are restored to the "very good" yet unregenerated state Adam was
in before he fell.
So they enter eternal life which is what God prepared for the created man from the foundation of the world.
The sons of God who reign over them inherit what was promised them BEFORE the foundation of the world. (Compare Matthew 25:34 with Eph. 1:3)
@sonship saidI do not need, neither do I care, to understand every false doctrine that blows around the place. Your doctrine is convoluted nonsense that twists the teachings of the bible. A follower of Christ listens to Christ, nobody else. You are not one.
@Rajk999
No I did NOT say that the goats went into temporary punishment.
You have to cool your head down and GET what it is that is being SAID.
You have to have a more sober mind.
If you are going to criticize an interpretation you have to first understand what
it is that is being taught.