Belief vs. faith

On belief, I reckon that one should not hold to close to any rigid beliefs as they may experience considerable discomfort if their beliefs turn out to be wrong.
After all, our belief in things like gods, inter-dimensional entities or any other faith-driven beliefs, doesn't make a lick of difference to whether these things exist.
The only things I can put any real faith into are the things I have experienced directly myself. While it is often hard, or impossible, to put into words, I will continue to try as these experiences make up the majority of who I am and have led me to where I am.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
On belief, I reckon that one should not hold to close to any rigid beliefs as they may experience considerable discomfort if their beliefs turn out to be wrong.
After all, our belief in things like gods, inter-dimensional entities or any other faith-driven beliefs, doesn't make a lick of difference to whether these things exist.
The only things I ca ...[text shortened]... nue to try as these experiences make up the majority of who I am and have led me to where I am.

So you're saying that faith is built on personal experience, and that belief requires a leap of faith from that faith, that you may not be comfortable with should your belief turn out to be wrong.

I don't think you can make a distinction between belief and faith in this instance. They both pretty much rely on assumptions of an incomplete big picture. They are in fact synonyms.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Nevertheless a good teacher should be able to teach spirituality to even a blind person.
If god is real then people will find 'it' sooner or later. (there are so many variables in that last sentence ,that depending on your answer, I may bail out of this altogether)

Belief is the starting point. Faith is subsequent. The need of a Teacher who will lead a disciple towards the realisation of God, without any temporary loss of Faith which occurs many a times on this ardous journey ( called the Dark night of Soul ) cannot be overemphasised.

Originally posted by KellyJay
If faith is walking out your beliefs, having proof doesn't require faith, that is
not the samething as having evidence since we can wrap our beliefs about
evidence and be wrong about what we think is true.
Kelly

When a person is keen to know anything about the ultimate reality--God in other words--his belief is often strengthened by evidence in the form of signs that God is watching him. But then after a time, it does happen that his belief is shaken by calamities which cause him a lot of grief. He must hold on to his belief so that it matures into Faith.

Originally posted by amannion
I believe in many things, just not fairies, ghosts, vampires, demons, gods .... and so on.

Do you believe in Love,Friendship,Beauty of this Universe,Goodness of Honest Work,Fellowship of all beings(human and non-humans),Living life true to oneself and to others,Intuition, Thought transfer between lovers and Parents/Children,Mind,limitations of human Body and Mind ?
Then I would say you believe in God.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
When a person is keen to know anything about the ultimate reality--God in other words--his belief is often strengthened by evidence in the form of signs that God is watching him. But then after a time, it does happen that his belief is shaken by calamities which cause him a lot of grief. He must hold on to his belief so that it matures into Faith.

I recall reading a story about a park ranger giving a tour through a forest and
the group he was guiding came across a fallen tree. The group asked what
happen to the tree that caused it to fall like that the roots were completely
exposed pulled out of the earth. He said that the tree simply out grew its roots
and it toppled. I believe from time to time people who do not grow in God do
run the danger of setting themselves up for failure, they do not grasp that no
matter what happens in this life, God is with them and for them. Those who
think that if God is for them only good things will happen to them, that they
will never suffer harm are not grounded in truth and when trials do come they
will due to their break with reality in their beliefs will fall away.
Kelly

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Belief is the starting point. Faith is subsequent. The need of a Teacher who will lead a disciple towards the realisation of God, without any temporary loss of Faith which occurs many a times on this ardous journey ( called the Dark night of Soul ) cannot be overemphasised.

I think it's time for breakfast after that post

Originally posted by KellyJay
I recall reading a story about a park ranger giving a tour through a forest and
the group he was guiding came across a fallen tree. The group asked what
happen to the tree that caused it to fall like that the roots were completely
exposed pulled out of the earth. He said that the tree simply out grew its roots
and it toppled. I believe from time to time ...[text shortened]... rials do come they
will due to their break with reality in their beliefs will fall away.
Kelly

Many people do believe,in the beginning when they first turn towards God,that God is something like an ATM. Insert a card and out comes money. They also try to make a deal/deals with God. When the deals do not materialise,they lose faith.
Hindus have an epic called Mahabharata wherein the great Poem of Bhagavad Geeta is contained ,which is said to be the advice given by Lord Krishna-- an incarnation of God-- to his cousin, warrior Arjuna. Arjuna is unready to do battle with his grandfather and cousins called Kauravas on the question of the partition of the ancestral Kingdom. Eventually the battle is joined and won by Arjuna and his two brothers and two stepbrothers.
Lord Krishna, much later on, when everything is all right and everyone is happy asks Kunti,the mother of Arjuna,what does she now desire. Kunti says that Lord please give us unhappiness and difficulties. Asked why, she says that all of them remembered him the Lord only when unhappiness and difficulties existed and prayed for deliverance. She says there is a risk now that since everything is all right,they may forget him.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Many people do believe,in the beginning when they first turn towards God,that God is something like an ATM. Insert a card and out comes money. They also try to make a deal/deals with God. When the deals do not materialise,they lose faith.
Hindus have an epic called Mahabharata wherein the great Poem of Bhagavad Geeta is contained ,which is said to be t ...[text shortened]... liverance. She says there is a risk now that since everything is all right,they may forget him.

I agree people do that, they don't think much of the term Lord either when
applied Jesus Christ as well. We are a self centered people, putting God in
proper perspective requires us to be servents, not a position most of us find
desirable if we are looking for something that just deals with our needs/wants.
Kelly

Originally posted by amannion
I believe in many things, just not fairies, ghosts, vampires, demons, gods .... and so on.

You also believe in evolution, which is an unproven theory.

I believe in a living, breathing, man named Jesus who was crucified and raised from the dead. It's a fact of history with many proofs.

It's not good that you don't see it.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
While I do not necessarily disagree with your post I would just like to say that it is hard to measure how "little used" faith is, as faith is an internal "action" which is not always evident to others.
(Although there are instances where an act can be traced back to one's faith)



I do find your posts negative, (unless you are rubbing up with oth ...[text shortened]... hatever), is a defence mechanism against their often rational, well thought out arguements.

Faith must have an object. If that object is false, then the faith is false.

True faith is in something real and true. Therefore, faith exercised toward something without substance is not faith at all. It is merely wishful thinking.

Few have true faith because they believe in that which is true. Many believe in things that are false, therefore their faith is in vain.

So, what is The Truth that one may have true faith in? We all know it's Jesus!

Oh my God! Did I just say that? 😉

Originally posted by josephw
You also believe in evolution, which is an unproven theory.

I believe in a living, breathing, man named Jesus who was crucified and raised from the dead. It's a fact of history with many proofs.

It's not good that you don't see it.

You also believe in evolution, which is an unproven theory.

Elaborate on this if you would Joseph. What books/journals/peer-reviewed articles have you scrutinized to reach this conclusion?

Originally posted by josephw
You also believe in evolution, which is an unproven theory.

I too would like to know why you think it's an "unproven" theory. Being a theory suggest there's a lot of observations in favour of it. But maybe that's for another thread.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]You also believe in evolution, which is an unproven theory.

Elaborate on this if you would Joseph. What books/journals/peer-reviewed articles have you scrutinized to reach this conclusion?[/b]

All of them. 🙄

If you don't believe me, just ask your high priest Richard Dawkins. Evolution is a theory. It cannot be substantiated by any fact. In fact, the theory of evolution is losing ground, because it is becoming more and more evident that all life forms exist on the basis of intelligent design.

No proponent of evolution can substantiate the claim that life evolved from a single anything. No one was there. There are no eyewitnesses. There is no scientific evidence that proves that anything has evolved. It is purely bogus science.

Everything is just as it was first created, only less so.

Originally posted by Zenarctic
I too would like to know why you think it's an "unproven" theory. Being a theory suggest there's a lot of observations in favour of it. But maybe that's for another thread.

If it were proven it wouldn't be a theory.