1. Joined
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    13 Aug '13 19:32
    "Born Again"


    Definition: Being born again involves being baptized in water (“born from water&rdquo😉 and begotten by God’s spirit (“born from . . . spirit&rdquo😉, thus becoming a son of God with the prospect of sharing in the Kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Jesus had this experience, as do the 144,000 who are heirs with him of the heavenly Kingdom.
  2. Joined
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    13 Aug '13 19:331 edit
    Why is it necessary for any Christians to be “born again”?


    God has purposed to associate a limited number of faithful humans with Jesus Christ in the heavenly Kingdom


    Luke 12:32: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.”


    Rev. 14:1-3: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb [Jesus Christ] standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand . . . who have been bought from the earth.” (See pages 166, 167, under the heading “Heaven.&rdquo😉


    Humans cannot go to heaven with bodies of flesh and blood


    1 Cor. 15:50: “This I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.”


    John 3:6: “What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit.”


    Only persons who have been “born again,” thus becoming God’s sons, can share in the heavenly Kingdom


    John 1:12, 13: “As many as did receive him [Jesus Christ], to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name; and they were born, not from blood or from a fleshly will or from man’s will, but from God.” (“As many as did receive him” does not mean all humans who have put faith in Christ. Notice who is being referred to, as indicated by Joh 1 verse 11 [“his own people,” the Jews]. The same privilege has been extended to others of mankind, but only to a “little flock.&rdquo😉


    Rom. 8:16, 17: “The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”


    1 Pet. 1:3, 4: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you.”


    What will they do in heaven?


    Rev. 20:6: “They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.”


    1 Cor. 6:2: “Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”
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    13 Aug '13 19:35
    Can a person who is not “born again” be saved?


    Rev. 7:9, 10, 17: “After these things [after the apostle John heard the number of those who would be “born again,” those who would make up spiritual Israel and would be with Christ in heaven; compare Romans 2:28, 29 and Galatians 3:26-29] I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: ‘Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.’ . . . ‘The Lamb [Jesus Christ], who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life.’”


    After listing many pre-Christian persons of faith, Hebrews 11:39, 40 says: “All these, although they had witness borne to them through their faith, did not get the fulfillment of the promise, as God foresaw something better for us, in order that they might not be made perfect apart from us.” (Who are here meant by “us”? Hebrews 3:1 shows that they are “partakers of the heavenly calling.” The pre-Christian persons who had faith, then, must have a hope for perfect life somewhere other than in heaven.)


    Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”


    Rev. 21:3, 4: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
  4. Joined
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    13 Aug '13 19:35
    Is it possible for a person to have God’s spirit and yet not be “born again”?


    Regarding John the baptizer, Jehovah’s angel said: “He will be filled with holy spirit right from his mother’s womb.” (Luke 1:15) And Jesus later said: “Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is [Why? Because John will not be in the heavens and so there was no need for him to be “born again”]. But from the days of John the Baptist until p. 79now [when Jesus stated this] the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press.”—Matt. 11:11, 12.


    The spirit of Jehovah was “operative” upon David and “spoke” by him (1 Sam. 16:13; 2 Sam. 23:2), but nowhere does the Bible say that he was “born again.” There was no need for him to be “born again,” because, as Acts 2:34 says: “David did not ascend to the heavens.”
  5. Standard memberVelns
    Latvian Trickster
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    13 Aug '13 20:581 edit
    Interesting series of posts Galveston. Why is there preciseley 144,000 people in heaven out of the billions who have lived? And why limit the number?
  6. Joined
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    13 Aug '13 22:48
    Originally posted by Velns
    Interesting series of posts Galveston. Why is there preciseley 144,000 people in heaven out of the billions who have lived? And why limit the number?
    Thanks. One needs to think about the duties these "chosen ones" or the 144,000 will be doing. As the Bible describes they will be ruling with Jesus as judges and kings over mankind that are here on earth.
    The reason for a small amount is just as the legal system is today in most countries, you don't need millions of judges to rule and to make decisions over the masses. We can see that here in this countries judical system.
    One would do good to realize that this in reality is what God's Kingdom actually is and that it is a Kingdom or government.
    God has arranged this from the moment that Adam sinned. He instantly put into works the need to show humans that we do need his direction as the old testiment showed. Man as a whole did not do good on many levels up to the time Jesus came to earth.
    Once he arrived he put into motion with his Fathers backing the next steps in establishing the frame work for this Kingdom and that started with him picking the original ones who would rule with him in the future once he prepared the heavenly part of this Kingdom by ousting satan from the heavens.
    So getting to the point these chosen ones were to be a small amount of humans that actually do go to heaven to be actual judges and kings with Jesus to be a part of the restoration of the earth back to the paradise that God originally designed for all of us.
    So no the majority of humans that are in God's favor will never go to heaven. No where does the bible ever say that but it clearly says that the earth will be for man's use forever, just as he planned from the beginning.
  7. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
    Fort Gordon
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    14 Aug '13 02:34
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Thanks. One needs to think about the duties these "chosen ones" or the 144,000 will be doing. As the Bible describes they will be ruling with Jesus as judges and kings over mankind that are here on earth.
    The reason for a small amount is just as the legal system is today in most countries, you don't need millions of judges to rule and to make decisions ...[text shortened]... says that the earth will be for man's use forever, just as he planned from the beginning.
    I don't believe all this Watchtower crap.

    The Instructor
  8. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    14 Aug '13 04:491 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    "Born Again"


    Definition: Being born again involves being baptized in water (“born from water&rdquo😉 and begotten by God’s spirit (“born from . . . spirit&rdquo😉, thus becoming a son of God with the prospect of sharing in the Kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Jesus had this experience, as do the 144,000 who are heirs with him of the heavenly Kingdom.
    Regeneration - www.regenerated.net

    A short sample ---

    Regeneration is a rebirth which brings in a new life. It is absolutely a matter of life, not a matter of doing. Regeneration is simply to have life other than the life we already have. We have already received the human life from our parents; now we need to receive the divine life from God. Hence, regeneration means to have the divine life of God in addition to the human life which we already possess. Therefore, regeneration requires another birth in order to possess another life. To be regenerated, to be born again, does not mean to adjust or correct ourselves. It means to have the life of God, just as to be born of our parents means to have the life of our parents. To be regenerated is to be born of God (John 1:13), and to be born of God is to have the life of God, that is, the eternal life (3:15-16). (Witness Lee, LS of John, 98)
  9. Joined
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    14 Aug '13 05:241 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Thanks. One needs to think about the duties these "chosen ones" or the 144,000 will be doing. As the Bible describes they will be ruling with Jesus as judges and kings over mankind that are here on earth.
    The reason for a small amount is just as the legal system is today in most countries, you don't need millions of judges to rule and to make decisions says that the earth will be for man's use forever, just as he planned from the beginning.
    How does one get to be a member of the 144,000?
  10. Joined
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    14 Aug '13 07:31
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I don't believe all this Watchtower crap.

    The Instructor
    So what's new...You'll never believe it or even understand it so go do your own trinity thingy.
  11. Joined
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    14 Aug '13 07:33
    Originally posted by sonship
    Regeneration - www.regenerated.net

    A [b]short sample
    ---

    Regeneration is a rebirth which brings in a new life. It is absolutely a matter of life, not a matter of doing. Regeneration is simply to have life other than the life we already have. We have already received the human life from our parents; now we need to receive the divine life ...[text shortened]... ave the life of God, that is, the eternal life (3:15-16). (Witness Lee, LS of John, 98)
    [/b]
    If being born again is the same as this regeneration thing, why isn't hat description mentined in the Bible?
  12. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    14 Aug '13 11:121 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    If being born again is the same as this regeneration thing, why isn't hat description mentined in the Bible?
    www.regenerated.net
  13. Standard memberRemoved
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    14 Aug '13 13:12
    Originally posted by galveston75
    If being born again is the same as this regeneration thing, why isn't hat description mentined in the Bible?
    Titus 3:5
    King James Version (KJV)
    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
  14. Joined
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    14 Aug '13 15:003 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Titus 3:5
    King James Version (KJV)
    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    The term regeneration is not in every Bible. In fact most use the term "bath" as in baptism.

    So who was being spoken of here? Was this statement made to the masses or to whom?

    Also check out this referrance in Matt:


    Matthew 19:28

    New Living Translation (NLT)


    28 Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Jesus was saying, when would these who are in a saved condition actually be given this new life?
    It is not until Jesus takes the throne of his Fathers Kingdom and the earth has been made new or cleansed of all wickedness. That has not happened yet...
  15. Standard membersonship
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    14 Aug '13 15:263 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Titus 3:5
    King James Version (KJV)
    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Titus 3:5 - ... He saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit ..."

    The Greek word for English regeneration in verse 5 is different from the regenerated in 1 Pet. 2:23. That used in 1 Peter. 2:23 is means born again.

    The word used in Titus 3:5 is used in only one other place in the NT - Matt. 19:28. Be careful and don't fall into a trap.

    The meaning of the word regeneration in Matthew 19:28 is the restoration in the millennial kingdom. The 1,000 year kingdom preceding the new heaven and new earth is called "the restoration" [b] or [b]"the regeneration" .

    In Titus 3:5 the washing of regeneration I think includes more than just the birth of being born again. But it starts with the birth of being born again. It continues with a gradual change from one state to another. The new birth is the commencing of this gradual change.

    The washing of regeneration BEGINS with the person being born again and continues with the renewing of the Holy Spirit as the process of God's new creation. This is a process that makes us a new man.

    Washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit is a reconditioning, remaking, or remolding, with divine life. So BIRTH is only the initial commencement of the process.

    The process is symbolized in baptism (Rom. 6:3-5) which stands for the putting off of the old man and the putting on of the new man (Eph. 4:22,24; Col. 3:9-11). The carrying out of the reality of this baptism symbol is the transformation by the renewing of the mind (Rom. 12:2; Eph. 4:23). Christ causes a man to be born again and enter into a process of a kind of "metabolic" re-modeling in his soul leading with the renewing of the mind.

    The washing of regeneration purges away all the things of the old nature of our old man, and the renewing of the Holy Spirit imparts something new - the divine essence of the new man - into the cooperative Christian's being.

    The process requires cooperation and is not automatic. But it is available to all who have been born again.

    In this process os passing from the old state into a wholly new one, from the old creation into the status of a new creation man is saved from more than just punishment. He is saved from oldness and the fallen Adamic soul. Both the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit are working in the Christian throughout his or her whole life until the completion of the new creation.
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