@secondson saidI don't believe "the God of Bible" exists.
It was to FMF I said, "it's not in the Bible", and that was in the context of FMF's insistence on inferring that the God of the Bible is a torturer God.
I don't believe anyody is going to get tortured or tormented after they die.
By contrast, people who subscribe to torturer god ideology do believe it and they believe the Bible says so.
Torment in burning flames for eternity = torture.
God = inflicts this torment [= torturer].
This rightfully happens to group X but group Y can avoid it = ideology.
divegeester and Suzianne do not subscribe to torturer god ideology.
sonship, KellyJay, Philokalia do.
@rajk999 saidYour whole problem is you make opinionated claims and fail to provide scriptural support.
@SecondSon Apparently you agree though that the Bible does in fact say that those who reject God's salvation will be punished and suffer torment for ever and ever.
Apparently also, divegeester thinks it's all metaphorical, and for some reason he thinks the lost get a light spanking and are annihilated and cease to exist.
Im pretty sure the Bible does not say wha ...[text shortened]... to the false doctrine that souls are eternal and cannot be destroyed, a myth that Christ overturned.
I don't care about what you think. Provide scriptural evidence that the unsaved are annihilated.
@secondson saidI never said anything about saved vs unsaved.... that is your language. There are two groups of people in the world. Those who will enter the kingdom of God and those who will be cast out. The cast out ones will be destroyed ie both body and soul in hell. Those are the words of Christ .
Your whole problem is you make opinionated claims and fail to provide scriptural support.
I don't care about what you think. Provide scriptural evidence that the unsaved are annihilated.
-Removed-Always the person insults. Are you that insecure?
I'll do you one better because I've read the other translations too.
See the words "is filled up" in verse 1 of chapter 15 in revelation?
It's the same Greek word translated "it is finished" uttered by Jesus as He hung on the cross dying. That word is used 30 times in the New Testament.
teleĊ - to bring to a close, to finish, to end
You're merely confusing apples with oranges. The context of Revelation 15 is in reference to events culminating the last days of the rule of man prior to the return of Jesus Christ and Him establishing the millennial kingdom.
You're mixing up the scriptures. The context of revelation 14 speaks of the wrath of God in reference to its application to everlasting punishment. In 15:1 God's wrath is completed relative to the close of the tribulation period.
@rajk999 saidShut up Rajk. Or provide scriptural evidence for your assertions. I'm not arguing with your personal opinions.
I never said anything about saved vs unsaved.... that is your language. There are two groups of people in the world. Those who will enter the kingdom of God and those who will be cast out. The cast out ones will be destroyed ie both body and soul in hell. Those are the words of Christ .
@fmf saidWell, if you don't believe the God of the Bible exists, then you're just quibbling over delusions.
I don't believe "the God of Bible" exists.
I don't believe anyody is going to get tortured or tormented after they die.
By contrast, people who subscribe to torturer god ideology do believe it and they believe the Bible says so.
Torment in burning flames for eternity = torture.
God = inflicts this torment [= torturer].
This rightfully happens to group X but gr ...[text shortened]... geester and Suzianne do not subscribe to torturer god ideology.
sonship, KellyJay, Philokalia do.
Why do you waste everyone's time arguing over what you clearly think doesn't exist?
Besides that you're absolutely mistaken relative to what the Bible actually means by what it says.
@secondson saidI find the torturer god ideology to be morally incoherent and its proponents to be profoundly misanthropic, not that they concur. This I find interesting.
Well, if you don't believe the God of the Bible exists, then you're just quibbling over delusions.
Why do you waste everyone's time arguing over what you clearly think doesn't exist?
@secondson saidSo what is unclear exactly about Rev 14:9-11:
Besides that you're absolutely mistaken relative to what the Bible actually means by what it says.
“If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
@secondson saidTake it up with its proponents - and not me - if it's of interest to you.
Besides that you're absolutely mistaken relative to what the Bible actually means by what it says.
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@secondson saidAs usual the Bible contradicts your church doctrine
Shut up Rajk. Or provide scriptural evidence for your assertions. I'm not arguing with your personal opinions.
When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: But thou, LORD, art most high for evermore. For, lo, thine enemies, O LORD, for, lo, thine enemies shall perish; all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered. (Psalms 92:7-9 KJV)
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 KJV)
No mention of torment. It is a figment of your imagination. Torment is reserved for the Devil, the False Prophet and the Beast.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWho said it was unclear?
So what is unclear exactly about Rev 14:9-11:
“If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of t ...[text shortened]... y or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”