Calling All Aliens

FMF, answer yet ?

If nature had a beginning how could nature begin itself ?

Come on. It should be a light weight issue that you can knock off quickly,
since my proposal is so weak.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Ok lying aside, would you say you have less guilt now than you had when you were a Christian? Is there anything you used to feel guilty about because you believed God could see your actions that you no longer feel guilty about because you now believe the Christian God is a myth?

Guilt is connected with morality. We have already discussed morality - we did so when you were posting as Fetchmyjunk - and I am happy that I made my viewpoints clear and discussed them with you as much as I want to. So, as for your latest overture, I am not interested. Talk to someone else.

Originally posted by sonship
If nature had a beginning how could nature begin itself ?

If nature did not have a beginning ... who or what legislated that [b]laws of nature and began it ?

Take the periodic table for an example. Do you think those relationships were eternal and never established ?

Yes or No will be a good concise "stronger" indication of your own thoughts ...[text shortened]... hed.

Take an unambiguous committal position on the question if you're for stronger arguments.[/b]

You said something about the word "supernatural" being a "quip" that misrepresented Jesus. In fact "supernatural" things are part of the very essence of everything you believe. So the "quip" riff was a half baked weak little angle you tried.

Originally posted by FMF
Guilt is connected with morality. We have already discussed morality - we did so when you were posting as Fetchmyjunk - and I am happy that I made my viewpoints clear and discussed them with you as much as I want to. So, as for your latest overture, I am not interested. Talk to someone else.

None of the questions I have asked you now have I asked before. Saying you have answered questions that I have never asked you before is dishonest. If you don't want to answer the questions just say so.

Originally posted by sonship
If nature had a beginning how could nature begin itself ?

I don't know if "nature had a beginning". You have your faith, and I recognize your faith, but I thought we more or less agreed earlier on this thread that, in fact, neither of us know about the origin of life.

Originally posted by chaney3
Sonship?

Jesus is unusual. He is alive. He is available.

Look at what Jesus Himself said about His death and resurrection.
It is true.

" I will not leave you as orphans, I am coming to you.

Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live.

In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you." (See John 14:18-20)

Its true.
What an adventure it is to meet Jesus Christ in His knowable form and see the pages of the New Testament lighten up to your experience.

" I know that this is talking about. I have experienced this what Jesus is talking about."

This is a great adventure.

Originally posted by dj2becker
None of the questions I have asked you now have I asked before. Saying you have answered questions that I have never asked you before is dishonest. If you don't want to answer the questions just say so.

Like I said, I am not interested. Talk to someone else.

Read the words above again. Do you understand them?

Originally posted by sonship
If nature did not have a beginning ... who or what legislated that laws of nature and began it ?

"Legislated"?

Originally posted by FMF
I don't know if "nature had a beginning". You have your faith, and I recognize your faith, but I thought we more or less agreed earlier on this thread that, in fact, neither of us know about the origin of life.

You don't want to commit to a position.
" I don't know if " leaves it up in the air and you don't have to commit.

But I am "weak" in what I propose.

You do admit that IF nature did have a beginning then it had a BEGINNER who transcends it ? Right ?

And if nature is uncreated and eternal, that probably negates the problem of needing super-natural.

Why then don't you just take up the position that nature and its laws are uncreated and eternal - always were ?

Does something cause you hesitation to take that position ?

Originally posted by sonship
That's a long question. But if the word "quip" is a real bother to you, maybe I'll think of another word.

"Beef?" "Objection?"
"Major obstacle?"
"Unsurmountable barrier ?"

" Total showstopper to believing the Bible?"

This was the kind of thing I referred to as weak,

Originally posted by sonship
But I am "weak" in what I propose.

What did I describe as "weak"? Go back and look and stop with this straw man.

Your faith in supernatural causality is strong. Your commitment is strong. Your conviction is strong.

I haven't referred to them as "weak".

Stop being so disingenuous.

Originally posted by sonship
" I don't know if " leaves it up in the air and you don't have to commit.

But it's true to say that I don't know. So you are saying that I must "commit", but to what?

Originally posted by FMF
"Legislated"?

Legislated is a good word here.
Laws are legislated.

Look at the periodic table of elements.

intransitive verb
: to perform the function of legislation; specifically : to make or enact laws
transitive verb
: to mandate, establish, or regulate by or as if by legislation

Was the rules governing those elements un-created and eternal ?
Or were they mandated, legislated, designed, established ?

Does something cause you pause to believe that they were ALWAYS as eternal with NO beginning ?

Originally posted by sonship
Does something cause you hesitation to take that position ?

Honesty precludes me "taking a position".

Originally posted by FMF
Like I said, I am not interested. Talk to someone else.

Read the words above again. Do you understand them?

Of course you are not interested, considering your position.