Calling Out Jesus in Rev.

@sonship said
@divegeester

If anyone wants to learn to use the Search Engine at www.ministrybooks.org they can probably find out for themselves if I used a phrase that can be located somewhere in a message by Witness Lee or Watchman Nee.

Please be my guest. But you'll have to learn how to use their Search Engine.

(I'm pretty good at locating words. Phrases of more than one word, I do not often use. You guys are so smart, you'll have little trouble with it.)

Any interest I may have had in Witness Lee has been crushed by your representation of his work in this forum.

The sign of Jesus Christ is significant in all the details. When you go on to read the seven letters to the seven churches, what His features are in the sign is often re-spoken.

This means that He is ministering to that church according to a particular aspect of what He is.

Now let's look at the vision of the resurrected and glorified Christ. This is best done with a prayerful spirit. Don't just get into it in the head. Get into it in a thankful and worshipful way "in spirit" as John was.

And His head and hair were as white as white wool, as snow,

I was helped by Brother Lee to see that SNOW is heavenly. And white as white wool is a matter of life.

I was helped that this shows Christ's ancientness is not old but of ever fresh and eternal life. His hair is like the WOOL of a sheep. His ancientness is of ever existing LIFE. And it is like SNOW In that it is heavenly.

I am sure others through the years have been impressed along the same lines.

The Lord Jesus Christ is ANCIENT. But He is not OLD.
He is eternal. But He is as refreshing as fresh snow. And He is heavenly.

Lord Jesus, I thank You that you are FRESH and LIVING. Lord Jesus I praise You that You are ANCIENT with Wisdom yet not old. What a wonderful Person You are as the Son of Man.

And His head and hair were as white as white wool, as snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire.

This is easy about His EYES. The eyes of Christ lay all of our hearts naked and bear before God. Yet He does so in utter love.

God does not expose men for the mere pleasure of exposing men. He does so as a physician to HEAL and to SAVE. You can always come to Christ in 100% honesty in your prayers.

You should praise Him that nothing in you escapes His penetrating eyes of love and salvation. This works greatly FOR Us. It is not only a scary matter against us.

His eyes penetrate and can shepherd us from moment to moment. Not a nanosecond can go by in our being and Jesus Christ is not completely aware of EVERYTHING going on in our being.

What a Savior and what a High Priest.

Now anyone who loves the New Testament should be able to glen this. No spiritual giants are needed to tell you this. Look -

"And there is no creature that is not manifest before Him, but all things are naked and laid bare to the eyes of Him to whom we are to give our account." (Heb. 4:13)

Thank You Lord Jesus for Your eyes as a flame of fire, penetrating into any kind of perplexing situation. Nothing in our human life is too perplexing and too tough for You Lord.

I may be perplexed. Jesus Christ has eyes as a flame of fire. His gaze of love and judgment is penetrating, liberating, transformiing.

His EYES will come into play when He speaks to the church in Thyatira. For she, more than all the other churches, is involved with the occult and the deep things of Satan in her degradation.

Many items of the vision of Christ are referred to again in the letters to the seven churches - as the need arises for that aspect of His being.

@divegeester

Any interest I may have had in Witness Lee has been crushed by your representation of his work in this forum.

I mean BOO! HOO!

Excuse me while I wail and sob and roll across the floor in despairing TEARS !

You can be a funny guy sometimes. Umm, don't throw away your Bible.

@sonship [i]said[/i
If anyone wants to learn to use the Search Engine at www.ministrybooks.org

“Downloading this material, even for personal use, is prohibited.”

From that very same website.

@sonship said
I mean BOO! HOO!
Excuse me while I wail and sob and roll across the floor in despairing TEARS !

Edifying.

Revelation establishes that Jesus Christ still has a vital ministry after His ascension.
He is the High Priest clothed in a priestly garment tending to the local churches on the earth.

Revelation establishes also that Jesus Christ as "the Son of Man" is also Jehovah God incarnate.

So let's see this in chapter one.

"And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead, and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear, I am the First and the Last and the living One; and I became dead, and behold I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys to of death and of Hades." (Rev. 1:17,18) [/b]

The First and the Last is Jehovah God of the Old Testament.

"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts,

I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)

Isn't this good? Jehovah has become a Man - "the Son of Man" He has done the miraculous - become a man and passed through death.

In fact at a Man He has walked through terrible trials and hardships of human life to live a perfect righteous human life in obedience to the Father. That is probably why the visions describes His feet as like burnished bronze and having been burned in a furnace of fire.

" ... one like the Son of Man ... And His feet were like shining bronze, as having been fired in a furnace ..." (Rev. 1:13a,14a)

Whatever hardship we walk through we can be assured that the High Priest as the Son of Man has passed through trials of fire a thousand times more severe. His feet were like burnished bronze. Bronze signifies judgement. The thought is He is qualified to judged because He has passed through the furnace of all kinds of trials, sufferings, hardships.

Matthew Henry's Commentary is helpful here:

His feet like fine brass burning in a furnace, may denote the firmness of his appointments, and the excellence of his proceedings. His voice as the sound of many waters, may represent the power of his word, to remove or to destroy. The seven stars were emblems of the ministers of the seven churches to which the apostle was ordered to write, and whom Christ upheld and directed. The sword represented his justice, and his word, piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, Heb 4:12. His countenance was like the sun, when it shines clearly and powerfully; its strength too bright and dazzling for mortal eyes to behold. The apostle was overpowered with the greatness of the lustre and glory in which Christ appeared. We may well be contented to walk by faith, while here upon earth. The Lord Jesus spake words of comfort; Fear not. Words of instruction; telling who thus appeared. And his Divine nature; the First and the Last.

@divegeester

Why don't you see if you can put two sentences together about the glory of Jesus Christ?
Is ALL you can do is complain and be grumpy on the Spirituality Forum ?

You should be ashamed of yourself that all you can write is bitterness, objection, complaining, and murmuring.

Where is your love of God?
Where is your love for Jesus Christ?

WHERE ???

I occasionally cut and paste from www.ministrybooks.org. And if I don't you murmur that I am not giving credit. And if I cut and paste you murmur and sneer that I am using the ministry there for "personal use."

You cannot do ANYTHING ELSE except detract and subvert NT ministry, can you ?

Go start a thread and show us how it should be done to speak and discuss positively the Wonderful Lord Jesus Christ.

.

Now what the site SAID was that they prefer you to put the DATE that the message was given when using the material. That I do not usually do. That is not always available to do.

But far use allows me to quote portions of any website. And I have multiple times told you exactly who you might bring objection to if you wish. You never do it because you're a chronic troll and only want to detract and subvert good NT teaching, nothing more.

Now in order not to WASTE this post completely, I bring attention to the fact that Christ is the Alpha and the Omega in Revelation 1:8. This is like Him being Jehovah God the First and the Last.

" I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (1:8)

My opinion is that that is God speaking in Jesus Christ coming on the clouds in the vision. The previous verse says -

"Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the land will mourn over Him, Yes, amen.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God. He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."

We have to inform the Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus coming on the clouds is the coming of "the Almighty"

Jesus - the High Priest STILL with a ministry.
Jesus - the Son of Man who is God Jehovah incarnated.
Jesus - has the voice of the Almighty and a word that is like a sharp two edged sword.

Jesus is God incarnate Who passed through death and came out again with the keys of death and of Hades.

Jesus is the pierced one of Zechariah 12. When He comes on the clouds from heaven the tribes of the Holy Land will see Him and mourn for Him according to Zechariah's prophecy.

We should pray over all these verses.
We should turn all these verses in Revelation chapter one into praises to the Triune God.

How then can you prove that Jesus is the embodiment of the Trinity in Revelation chapter one ?

It is not too hard.
Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the Triune God there in Revelation chapter one.

How could that be demonstrated?
Okay, how could it be negated?


Dr. Sourpuss ?

The Triune God is strongly implied in the salutation of the whole book.
The Father, the Spirit, and the Son are all the source of the revelation.

Right here.

" ... Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, And from Jesus Christ,

the faithful Witness, the Firstborn from the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood." (1:4b-5)

That is FROM the Triune God.

The Father, the Holy Spirit as the "seven Spirits" and the Son - Jesus Christ the Ruler of the kings of the earth.

The salutation indicates the Trinity is the source of the all the revelation to be unveiled in the book.

But it is an interesting variation on the announcement of the Trinity. The Father is "Him who is and who was and who is coming,". The Spirit is the seven Spirits of God. I assure you that that means the Holy Spirit. And of course Christ is named last here.

The sequence is here Father - Spirit - Son.

No one taught me this except my examination of the Scripture. But I am not the only reader to notice this. And what I learned about the Seven Spirits of God was from brother Witness Lee. I never understood that the Holy Spirit is also called in Revelation "the seven Spirits of God".

Anyway, the Trinity is seen in Revelation 1.

@sonship said
How then can you prove that Jesus is the embodiment of the Trinity in Revelation chapter one ?

It is not too hard.
Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the Triune God there in Revelation chapter one.

How could that be demonstrated?
Okay, how could it be negated?


Dr. Sourpuss ?

- I don’t believe in the trinity of three people in god so your question to me is moot.
-I don’t believe the book of Revelation to be literal and you cowardly refuse to say which parts you think are literal and which are not, so we cannot intelligently compare ideas.
-You mention “triune” again as though somehow I might accept your error.

In short sonship I see you as someone who comes here with a bunch of intellectual properties you have lifted from other people’s ministries and tries to pass them off as your own thinking. Frequently the stuff is in error and when called on it lack the grace to admit it.

I see you as sometimes propagating what I think is gross error, bringing the name of Jesus Christ into disrepute with your false teaching about him torturing people for eternity and for generally being a prickly and ocaisionally when ruffled, a quite nasty individual.

So your protestations of my not showing a love for Jesus etc etc is like water of a ducks back.

@divegeester

- I don’t believe in the trinity of three people in god so your question to me is moot.

Perhaps the trinity that you don't believe in is not the trinity that I believe in.

The salutation is from three "Persons" ( word borrowed because of the limitation of human language).

Now tell us WHICH ONE was not God.

" ... grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming ..." (v.4)

1.) Is this One not God?

"... and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, .." (v.4)

2.) Is this One not God ?

" ... And from Jesus Christ, the faithful Witness, the Firstborn from the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth ... Him who loved us and has released us from our sins by His own blood." (v.3)

3.) Is this One not God ?

So which of the three mentioned is not God ?
Your next post should specify which of the three "Persons" [used guardedly] ... is NOT God.

@sonship said
Perhaps the trinity that you don't believe in is not the trinity that I believe in.

I reject your trinity teaching.

But you are too cowardly to tell me if my rejection of it will in any way preclude me from salvation, aren't you.