Originally posted by lucifershammer
C'mon kirksey; who're you kidding?

This is what you said on page 1:

Perhaps I need to clarify this "competition." It is not about "arguing." It is not about ridiculing. It is not about insulting. It is about getting straight feedback about proclamation or preaching skills.

From Scribbles??

From bbarr (who, I admit, is quite f ...[text shortened]... unforgivable. If you've got any integrity whatsoever you'll drop the charade.

At church the preacher preaches to the choir every week. Saved people hear about how they can be saved over and over again, ad nauseum. This 'competition' seems like an interesting opportunity to actually preach a sermon to someone other than the choir, in a forum where voices of dissent and criticism aren't silenced by the need for decorum. If a Christian hasn't been lambasted or humiliated for sharing their faith yet, then now's as good a time as any to start. Because like it or not, persecution goes with the territory. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that we aren't walking into a den of vipers, but josephw made a good point: Jesus Christ loved vipers, enough to preach to them the good news of the gospel. If any of these judges have something truly constructive to contribute, I wouldn't be surprised. God works in mysterious ways. And as far as being at the mercy of these folks by sharing our personal accounts, I can think of worse ways to be exposed and mocked. Jesus Christ, for example, was nailed to a cross, naked. Yet he was still so high above the fray as to ask the Lord to forgive his persecuters. We who serve the Lord of Lords, we are God's nobility, and we have nothing to fear from the worst this world has to offer. The notion is laughable...

Peace.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
I have answered that question before. I do not participate in sermon competions ... actually I have never given a sermon and I do not intend ever to give one, certainly not in case the organiser is presenting the whole show in a language dripping with sarcasm and held back laughter about the things to come.

You're here for your entertainment, remember ?

If you do not want to participate in the competition then I encourage you, as I have LH, to not contaminate the process by jumping in when you feel interested in playing.

With all due respect, saying that you have never given a sermon is like saying you have never copy and pasted RCC ideology. You don't have to be behind the pulpit or in a church to give a sermon.

Originally posted by kirksey957
OK, let's start at the beginning. I started a thread to promote preaching skills in the same spirit that there was once a debate in this forum ( or was it the debate forum) with judges. As there is a lot of opinions around religion and faith in this forum I thought why not make this a competitive and learning experience. In fact this kind of exercise r your concerns and you can follow this as you like and see if your concerns were valid.

I have no idea what the other judges will say.

If you have no idea what the other judges will say, how can you make assurances that contestants will not be ridiculed or insulted?

Besides, anyone who's read at least half a dozen of Scribbles's posts is going to have a pretty good idea what he'll say. And do you honestly believe he has a desire to help people of faith be more effective at preaching it?


The first round's topic was chosen with some intentionality. Not to ridicule the person, but to invite them to share on a personal level the meaning of their faith. How could anyone have a problem with that?

I have a problem with asking people to let their guard down when I know they're going to take hits.


But I thank you for your concerns and you can follow this as you like and see if your concerns were valid.

And if they turn out to be the case? Will you take responsibility as organiser and apologise publicly?

Originally posted by epiphinehas
At church the preacher preaches to the choir every week. Saved people hear about how they can be saved over and over again, ad nauseum. This 'competition' seems like an interesting opportunity to actually preach a sermon to someone other than the choir, in a forum where voices of dissent and criticism aren't silenced by the need for decorum. If ...[text shortened]... g to fear from the worst this world has to offer. The notion is laughable...

Peace.

I have no problem with the 'competition'. I also understand that being lambasted/humiliated goes with the territory. It isn't even that people being at the mercy of a hostile audience by sharing personal accounts that bothers me.

My problem is with one Christian (a pastor* at that) misleading others into such a situation.

---
* Before someone brings it up again to deflect attention -- yes, I know all about the Church abuse scandal and no, I don't think this is as bad as that. But a wrongful act is not vindicated by pointing out something worse.

Originally posted by lucifershammer

..... It's despicable enough coming from anyone; from a so-called Christian pastor it's almost unforgivable. If you've got any integrity whatsoever you'll drop the charade.[/b]

Hear hear.

Originally posted by kirksey957
If you do not want to participate in the competition then I encourage you, as I have LH, to not contaminate the process by jumping in when you feel interested in playing.

With all due respect, saying that you have never given a sermon is like saying you have never copy and pasted RCC ideology. You don't have to be behind the pulpit or in a church to give a sermon.

If you do not want to participate in the competition then I encourage you, as I have LH, to not contaminate the process by jumping in when you feel interested in playing.

I'll comment whenever I feel like commenting.

With all due respect, saying that you have never given a sermon is like saying you have never copy and pasted RCC ideology. You don't have to be behind the pulpit or in a church to give a sermon.

You still can't stand serious criticism, now can you ?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I have no problem with the 'competition'. I also understand that being lambasted/humiliated goes with the territory. It isn't even that people being at the mercy of a hostile audience by sharing personal accounts that bothers me.

My problem is with one Christian (a pastor* at that) misleading others into such a situation.

---
* Before someone b his is as bad as that. But a wrongful act is not vindicated by pointing out something worse.

Understood.

EDIT: I guess I always thought kirksey wasn't really a pastor, and that the 'righteous reverend' bit was some sort of over-the-top charade to begin with. Shows what I know...

Originally posted by epiphinehas
At church the preacher preaches to the choir every week. Saved people hear about how they can be saved over and over again, ad nauseum. This 'competition' seems like an interesting opportunity to actually preach a sermon to someone other than the choir, in a forum where voices of dissent and criticism aren't silenced by the need for decorum. If ...[text shortened]... g to fear from the worst this world has to offer. The notion is laughable...

Peace.

The Lord has taught us a lot of things. Being stupid is not one of them.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
The Lord has taught us a lot of things. Being stupid is not one of them.

Oh, give it a break. Neither Herr Doctor nor I are out in this competition to humiliate the entrants. I'm going to be judging entries based on clarity, coherence, creativity, and other relatively ideologically-neutral criteria. If you think this is all a big set-up, then please just pay attention to the actual competition. I think you'll be surprised.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
The Lord has taught us a lot of things. Being stupid is not one of them.

Geez... Thanks. 🙂

Originally posted by bbarr
Oh, give it a break. Neither Herr Doctor nor I are out in this competition to humiliate the entrants. I'm going to be judging entries based on clarity, coherence, creativity, and other relatively ideologically-neutral criteria. If you think this is all a big set-up, then please just pay attention to the actual competition. I think you'll be surprised.

That's so. I was respectfully judged when I sermonized on the virtues of laissez-faire economics in the Great Debate of '06, and I intend to return the favor in kind. I do not intend to embarrass the Righteous Reverend or derail his competition, especially after being hand picked as a qualified judge to serve on the esteemed panel. My objective will be to assess how each entry fulfills the stated criteria.

I will have plenty of other opportunities for ridicule in this forum. I won't abuse my role as judge in the pursuit thereof. There is a time and place for everything under heaven.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I have no problem with the 'competition'. I also understand that being lambasted/humiliated goes with the territory. It isn't even that people being at the mercy of a hostile audience by sharing personal accounts that bothers me.

My problem is with one Christian (a pastor* at that) misleading others into such a situation.

---
* Before someone b his is as bad as that. But a wrongful act is not vindicated by pointing out something worse.

I think your charges of “misleading” are presumptuous. I think you also may be misreading some of Kirksey’s tongue-in-cheek humor in the affair (i.e., the “souls to be saved” bit).

Personally, I can’t think of anyone on here (including myself), that has not been ridiculed or personally insulted for something that they have posted. Nor, (offhand, and with apologies in advance to whomever I might be slandering by omission) can I think of anyone one here (including myself) who has never been guilty of same. (Well, gentlegil maybe.)

I will not comment on the entries (honoring the judges’ request to refrain), but I do not think that any of the entrants thus far are naive about such things.


Also, although “sermon” may be generally a Christian-contextual word, the thread is not limited to Christians; all religions were invited.

EDIT:

And if they turn out to be the case? Will you take responsibility as organiser and apologise publicly?

And if the judges do not act in bad faith, can Kirk expect the same from you? (BTW, I have been invited to be a judge in a later round, if there is one.)

EDIT 2: I want to add that I respect, without criticism, the decision of those who do not wish to take part, whether they believe that it is in some way farcical, or they simply do not wish to.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
That's so. I was respectfully judged when I sermonized on the virtues of laissez-faire economics in the Great Debate of '06, and I intend to return the favor in kind. I do not intend to embarrass the Righteous Reverend or derail his competition, especially after being hand picked as a qualified judge to serve on the esteemed panel. My objective wi ...[text shortened]... role as judge in the pursuit thereof. There is a time and place for everything under heaven.

Ha ha ha ha ...... 😀

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Geez... Thanks. 🙂

You're welcome ..... 🙂

Originally posted by bbarr
Oh, give it a break. Neither Herr Doctor nor I are out in this competition to humiliate the entrants. I'm going to be judging entries based on clarity, coherence, creativity, and other relatively ideologically-neutral criteria. If you think this is all a big set-up, then please just pay attention to the actual competition. I think you'll be surprised.

Speaking on behalf of the Doctor now, are you ? .... really ...... a big set up .... ha ha ha ..... 😀 😵 .....