Calling out ThinkOfOne

@secondson said
Your "14 elements" are a gross misrepresentation of what the Bible teaches and what Christians say relative to everlasting punishment.

So you do not believe each one? Number 1 for example? That is not your belief? And number 2? You don't believe that? And so on.

@secondson said
In fact, they are so far out in left field they're not worthy of serious consideration on any level.

What about these two?

3: This is punishment and revenge for their lack of faith and belief in the Christian God/Jesus.

4: They have 'failed to believe' that they were forgiven by Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection.

You do not believe either of those two things?

@secondson said
You should be embarrassed for listing them as though they merited even the minutest interest by any serious student of scripture.

What about these?

5: This lack of belief and failure are unforgivable.

6: In Hell/The Lake of Fire they are not destroyed and they are not allowed to die in order to escape the flames. They are conscious. They are tormented by the flames.

7: This torture is everlasting.

You do not believe these three things?

@philokalia said
Of the 105+ billion people that have lived, it seems unlikely that "billions and billions" of them have ever met the criteria for hell.

Billions and billions of people currently do not - and will never - believe in Jesus. The same goes for billions and billions of people who have died.

sonship, famously, claimed that maybe hundreds of people [just on this forum alone] are going to be tortured by his version of the Christian god figure as a result of being influenced by my posts on threads here [and therefore losing their belief in Jesus].

Since your statement was basically cancer, an accurate description is in order -- this differs from Western concepts to some degree:

(1) Hell exists. Is not a thing created by God, but it is the result of man's actions and choices:

God "never bears enmity", the blessed Chrysostom observes; it is we who become His enemies; we are the ones who reject Him. The unrepentant man becomes demonized, because he has chosen to. God does not desire this. Saint Gregory Palamas says: "…for this was not My pre-existing will; I did not create you for this purpose; I did not prepare the pyre for you. This undying pyre was pre-fired for the demons who bear the unchanging trait of evil, to whom your own unrepentant opinion attracted you." "The co-habitation with mischievous angels is voluntary" (4th Homily on the Second Coming.) In other words, it is something that is freely chosen by man.

[1]

(2) God returns upon final judgment and his love is as a burning fire which destroys our passions and purifies us, and for those who have rejected God it is tormenting and full of anguish.

(3) The age of accountability and the doctrine of ancestral sin fully account for people who never reach the age of accountability.

(4) The doctrine of Luke 12:48 is relevant for non-believers, particularly those never exposed to the word of God, for in their ignorance they cannot be held fully accountable or be understood to have rejected Christ by normal means.

We do not dwell on other paths that people take, but only insist that our path is a path which leads to heaven, and that any who follow christ and work to be like Him will enter the Kingdom of God. We also know that those who never had the opportunity to learn of this have lots of mercy for their ignorance.

---

This differs from the Western Christian concepts of hell in the sense that the West enjoys making them into more literal places (sometimes) and there may be other, more specific concepts that they employ.

I think we actually believe rather similar things but some of the order and "positioning" is wrong. Yet, I would emphasize that the doctrine is not overly fixed in the Eastern tradition.

And do feel free to read the whole link:

[1] http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles-2009/Mettalinos-Paradise-And-Hell-According-To-Orthodox-Tradition.php

@philokalia said
Since your statement was basically cancer, an accurate description is in order

My statement was "cancer"? What does that even mean?

@philokalia said
(1) Hell exists. Is not a thing created by God, but it is the result of man's actions and choices:

(2) God returns upon final judgment and his love is as a burning fire which destroys our passions and purifies us, and for those who have rejected God it is tormenting and full of anguish.

(3) The age of accountability and the doctrine of ancestral sin f ...[text shortened]... ng" is wrong. Yet, I would emphasize that the doctrine is not overly fixed in the Eastern tradition.

Thanks for this. We shall see if sonship engages you.

@philokalia said
God returns upon final judgment and his love is as a burning fire which destroys our passions and purifies us, and for those who have rejected God it is tormenting and full of anguish.

Do you believe this "tormenting" in "a burning fire" lasts for eternity?