@philokalia saidIf you are past the point in your life - in terms of your age - when you are still able to scrutinize the credibility of the foundations of your religious beliefs and be autonomous with regard to how you identify yourself in terms of those religious doctrines, then so be it. It's a very widespread phenomenon among theists of all stripes.
I am actually surprised. I thought you would have been an atheist from a younger age and it would not have started with doubts about a book which already is treated as exceptional by many Christians.
@fmf saidDoes such a point even really exist?
If you are past the point in your life - in terms of your age - when you are still able to scrutinize the credibility of the foundations of your religious beliefs and be autonomous with regard to how you identify yourself in terms of those religious doctrines, then so be it. It's a very widespread phenomenon among theists of all stripes.
@philokalia saidIt would depend on the individual. You seemed to think my 'point in life' should have come at "a younger age". You are projecting your own assumptions onto what I said and framing it in terms of age - or one's stage in life,
Does such a point even really exist?
Having said that, I would imagine for countless millions of theists, they are not able ~ at any point in life ~ intellectually, emotionally, socially ~ to scrutinize genuinely the credibility of their beliefs.
Nor are such people able to be autonomous as to how they identify themselves in terms of religion ~ certainly with the religion of their family and of the community around them as the backdrop to their contemplation.
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@fmf saidRevelation is unique from the rest of the scriptures except for Genesis, both
As an aside, the Book of Revelation is the reason I am no longer a Christian. A proper contemplation on its source and credibility and purpose was the thin end of a wedge for me about 20 years ago and it led to other reflections and contemplations which in turn led to me being an ex-Christian. I've been through it here on this forum several times so I am not going to go through i ...[text shortened]... in for you. Suffice to say, I sincerely believe the Book of Revelation is a hoax. That was an aside.
Genesis and Revelation share things outside of man’s time on the earth either
before man was on the earth, or in our future. Revelation is also unlike most of the
other scriptures in that those who wrote the other books did so as the Lord led
them to share, be it in a letter, a gospel, prophetic vision, or whatever it was that
God gave. That was not the case with Revelation, John wasn’t reflecting about
what he was going to say in the book of Revelation, he was told to write what he
saw and heard, many things Jesus and angels told or showed him, sometimes in
symbolic terms where things were immediately explained others not. No other
book do we see Jesus taking someone aside and saying write this down, this is
also the one book that gives warning about adding too or taking away from the
message.
Revelation 1: 10-11
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”
I’m sure the devil and his angels hate it too; their end is sure and coming quickly. It
does seem to provoke reactions from all who read it for and against.
@kellyjay saidI don't believe the writer [or team of writers] ~ whoever this "John" name might supposedly refer to [or to which group of people it might refer] ~ was told to write what was written. Jesus had been stone dead for decades. I have no reason to believe "angels told or showed him" anything. I am fully aware of what Christians believe about it. I don't believe it. That makes me a non-Christian. And I know full well what your torturer god ideology prescribes for me.
John wasn’t reflecting about
what he was going to say in the book of Revelation, he was told to write what he
saw and heard, many things Jesus and angels told or showed him, sometimes in
symbolic terms where things were immediately explained others not.
@fmf saidNor do I believe the Abrahamic God revealed his wishes to Muhammad through a visit by the "archangel" Gabriel in a cave in the 7th century. That makes me a non-Muslim.
I don't believe the writer [or team of writers] ~ whoever this "John" name might supposedly refer to [or to which group of people it might refer] ~ was told to write what was written. Jesus had been stone dead for decades. I have no reason to believe "angels told or showed him" anything. I am fully aware of what Christians believe about it. I don't believe it. That makes me a non-Christian. And I know full well what your torturer god ideology prescribes for me.
-Removed-I think it's pretty clear that SecondSon believes his version of God "torments those who are damned in a burning fire that lasts for eternity" but doesn't want to say so unequivocally ~ knowing that my terminology, which he dislikes, fits ~ and so he hides behind silly forum banter instead. KellyJay, to his credit, believes what he believes and is - in this instance anyway - open about it.
What a sweet double header of posts:
Dive talking about how I need to be around here more to ... be more familiar with the drama and banter that they constantly reference to derail people, and
FMF suggesting that SecondSon is avoiding the topic because he does not want to use the gross terminology he endorses and suggesting that someone else is deflecting.