Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]…We are here from some purposeless random "selection" of some kind…
I think it is just possible that you may have slightly misunderstood Darwinian evolution :
Evolution is “purposeless” but it isn’t completely “random”. If it was completely random then natural selection would not favour some characteristics over others and then neither ...[text shortened]... avily biases selection of those characteristics that help us to survive and pass on our genes.[/b]
Thanks Andrew,
This verbose reply is not only addressed to you but to Scribbles and another poster. My question to you is towards the upper end.
While I think about that, I didn't how you (Andrew) proposed an answer to eatmybishop's original topic question. Here it is:
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accept the universe goes on forever, it has always been there, has no start or end.... it is timeless...
can your mind accept that..?
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If you believe in the eternal pre-existence of the universe how would this Darwinian
"favour" that you spoke of work?
If you believe that the universe has existed in the forever previous - how did this
"weighting" come about.
I will accept "We haven't figured that out yet." as a reasonable reply.
If that is your reply please don't be totally close minded if I offer some alternative explanations based on my faith.
Now I got a raised eyebrow from Mr. Scribbles and a hardy belly laugh from another poster because I tied this matter to the resurrection of Christ.
This is a Spirituality Forum, so I assumed that the topic proposal would have something somehow to do with spirituality. Otherwise I think it may belong on the Science Forum.
Anyway, I said that:
1.) I did not believe that the universe always existed.
2.) I could accept that it always will exist given that it receives some help from an important historical event I believe in - the resurrection of Christ.
Scribbles has trouble seeing any connection. Well, for one Jesus strongly implied that His words were so stable and permanent that they would outlast even the physical universe:
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away." (Matt. 24:35)
To me this means that the teaching and promises of Jesus Christ as to their significance and faithfulness are more likely to endure than heaven and earth, ie. the physical universe.
This thought is repeated elsewhere in the Bible. That is that the words of God are more stable and eternal than the physical creation. So to me it is no joke.
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away."
I consider also these words from the prophet Isaiah (this is a
Spirituality Forum on which the question was posed for discussion)
" Lift up your eyes to the heavens, And look upon the earth beneath; For the heavens will vanish like smoke, And the earth will wear out like a garment. And those who dwell there will die in like manner;
BUT (my emphasis) ... My salvation will be forever, and My righteousness will not be abolished." (Isaiah 51:6)
What this tells me is that the the promises and salvation of the Creator of the universe is MORE stable and permanent than the physical creation itself. God informs us that it is more likely to collapse and wear out before His word and His salvation is.
To make a long story short (if it is not already too late) the resurrection of Christ (as an vital component of God's salvation and God's righteousness) is needed to sustain the future eternal existence of the universe.
We do have His promise of creating a new heaven and a new earth. Maybe God will throw away the old physics and create some new laws. I don't know really. But He sees the need to re-create a new heaven and a new earth
"in which righteousness dwells" And this is done through the resurrected Christ.
"For I am now creating new heavens and a new earth, And the former things will not be remembered nor will they come up in the heart,
But rejoice and exult forever, in what I create ... For I am creating Jerusalem as an exultation and her people as a rejoicing ... The wolf and the lamb will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent's food; They will not harm nor destroy in all My holy mountain." (See Isaiah 65)
Then we see the new heaven and new earth in the climax of the Bible, Revelation as a place for the capital New Jerusalem as the entity of the resurrected saved which match Christ as His Bride and Wife for eternity. The point being that the universe is the stage upon which this plan of God to be fulfilled. So God needs an eternally sustained creation:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away ... and I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:1,2)
Some of this is symbolic. But the essence of it is that this environment of the new heaven and new earth is needed for the eternal plan of God to have a corporate expression of the marriage and union of God and man. This is a matter of His righteousness which He said must outlast even the creation. He must fulfill His eternal purpose for man and keep His word of promise of salvation.
So, next time you consider the permenance of the Milky Way or of Andrameda galaxy you can consider the more permenant salvation of God throught His resurrected Son Jesus Christ.