Can you obey someone you have not met?

Originally posted by FMF
I was responding to you suggesting that someone who is "saved" cannot be thrown into the lake of fire. You presumably believe that someone who loses their faith can no longer say that ARE "saved"?

Rajk was implying that someone who is saved can be thrown into the lake of fire. I on the contrary believe someone who is saved is not thrown into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Rajk was implying that someone who is saved can be thrown into the lake of fire. I on the contrary believe someone who is saved is not thrown into the lake of fire.

But you have no idea who is "saved". You can't even claim that you are "saved".

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You obviously to not believe that a real Christian cannot lose their faith, so we obviously have differing perspectives of what a 'real Christian' is. I would say there is support for my view in the scriptures, but if you disagree and feel the Bible says that a true child of God can lose their faith and hence their salvation feel free to share those scriptures.

So you do believe that someone who loses their Christian faith was never a real Christian?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Who righteousness is it when we do good works ours, or someone else?

To answer the title question is simple, yes. Has anyone met the president, or congress, yet we obey ther laws

Originally posted by FMF
But you have no idea who is "saved". You can't even claim that you are "saved".

I can't judge someone else because I don't know of their walk with God, but each person knows their own walk with God and that is a personal matter between them and God.

Originally posted by FMF
So you [b]do believe that someone who loses their Christian faith was never a real Christian?[/b]

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV):

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

I believe people can be involved, perhaps heavily involved, in a church and likely they may even join a congregation, heard the Gospel, and saw the Spirit working in the life of Believers. They may have received some of the blessings of being part of a covenant community, and they may have even publicly confessed Christ and have been baptized [in early Christian writings, conversion and baptism were sometimes termed 'enlightenment']. But they never had a saving knowledge of Christ.

Another key word in understanding who is being described here is the word “tasted.” They only “tasted” or “sampled” Christ. They were never truly converted to faith in Him.

A good analogy would be the difference between marrying someone and just going out on a few dates with them. A person can learn things about Christ and thereby come to admire Him, and they may enjoy being part of a fellowship, but have no real lasting commitment to Him. This is not the same thing as the repentance and faith by which a person is savingly joined to Christ.

For an indepth discussion of what I believe I refer you to:
https://carm.org/about-can-person-lose-salvation

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV):

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God ...[text shortened]... h discussion of what I believe I refer you to:
https://carm.org/about-can-person-lose-salvation

What exactly is a 'saving knowledge of Christ'. Can you quote something from the Bible that explains that? Your explanations are not reliable.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I can't judge someone else because I don't know of their walk with God, but each person knows their own walk with God and that is a personal matter between them and God.

So you are not able to claim you are "saved" and you do not yet know whether you are a "real" Christian even on your own terms and according to your own logic, is that a fair summation?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Hebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV):

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God ...[text shortened]... h discussion of what I believe I refer you to:
https://carm.org/about-can-person-lose-salvation

You copy pasted a load of words somebody else wrote on a web site in order to answer a simple straight forward question about what you believe?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
A person can learn things about Christ and thereby come to admire Him, and they may enjoy being part of a fellowship, but have no real lasting commitment to Him.

So, finally, you are conceding that no one yet knows - not you, not me - if you have a "real lasting commitment" to Jesus - according to the application of your own logic (whether it be copy pasted or not) - is that right? You can be described as admiring Christ and we can presume that you "enjoy being part of a fellowship", but currently there is no way you can claim for sure that your "commitment to Him" is lasting, correct?

Originally posted by Rajk999
What exactly is a 'saving knowledge of Christ'. Can you quote something from the Bible that explains that? Your explanations are not reliable.

1Tim 2:3-5 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

Originally posted by FMF
So, finally, you are conceding that no one yet knows - not you, not me - if you have a "real lasting commitment" to Jesus - according to the application of your own logic (whether it be copy pasted or not) - is that right? You can be described as admiring Christ and we can presume that you "enjoy being part of a fellowship", but currently there is no way you can claim for sure that your "commitment to Him" is lasting, correct?

Just because you 'lost your faith' doesn't mean everyone else is going to lose theirs, if that is what you are getting at. I know of my current commitment, and that is enough for me. And I believe nothing can snatch me out of his hand.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk

Just because you 'lost your faith' doesn't mean everyone else is going to lose theirs, if that is what you are getting at.

I haven't predicted that you are going to lose your faith, but I think you already know this. And I certainly haven't said anything even remotely like "everyone else is going to lose their [faith]", so I assume you are just being facetious.

I know of my current commitment, and that is enough for me. And I believe nothing can snatch me out of his hand.

Yes, I'd have said the same thing about myself when I was a Christian, so I know where you're coming from.

But these are just red herrings, again. I'm not interested in your boasting about how strong your faith currently is. That's you either you missing the point, or you deliberately sidestepping it.

The point is the extrapolation of the declarations you have made about "real" Christian faith and "real" Christians.

You have said that someone who loses their Christian faith was never a real Christian. Do you accept that the logic of this pronouncement, if applied to you, is that no one knows if you are a "real" Christian yet, including you?

Furthermore, do you accept that you cannot claim, right now, that you "are saved", because you have no idea what is going to happen between now and when you pass away, and you cannot second guess what will happen to you at the moment of the "judgement" you believe in?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Just because you 'lost your faith' doesn't mean everyone else is going to lose theirs, if that is what you are getting at.

I haven't predicted that you are going to lose your faith, but I think you already know this. And I certainly haven't said anything even remotely like "everyone else is going to lose their [faith]", so I assume you are just being f ...[text shortened]... you cannot second guess what will happen to you at the moment of the "judgement" you believe in?[/b]

I believe someone who is truly saved experiences 'the peace of God that passes all understanding" which is spoken of in Philippians 4:7. Anyone who has that peace knows that they are saved and their hearts and minds are guarded from falling away.

Now my question to you is, did you ever experience the peace of God that passes all understanding when you were a Christian? When you 'lost your faith' did you lose this peace as well?