The post that was quoted here has been removedI am a Hindu and the issue of celibate Catholic priests is not of any concern to me.
However,I submit a story on Celibacy,which will pretty well define the Buddhist( and by association Hindu) position on it.
Two Buddhist monks, one an old Bhante( i.e. elderly teacher) and the other his young disciple were wondering around the country on a pilgrimage.They came to a stream flowing across their path.The stream,although shallow was quite fast flowing and a bit difficult to cross.They noticed a young woman waiting uncertainly at the bank,hesitating to cross.On seeing the two,she said" O,monks,please help me in crossing this torrent as I am afraid that if I cross on my own I will be washed away." The Bhante asked the woman to climb on to his shoulders and thus holding her fast on his shoulders,he crossed the stream along with the young disciple. When they reached the other shore,the Bhante dropped her and she went her way.After keeping silent for a while,the disciple burst forth in an angry voice "Bhante,have you no shame, sir? You have so easily gone back on the vow of Celibacy that you took when you became a monk!You carried that woman on your shoulders !" The elderly monk replied " I had already dropped her on the bank,quite sometime ago.But you seem to be carrying her still ! "
Morals:- i) Celibacy of the mind is what is the sacred thing to be observed.If you have libidinous thoughts in your mind,although your actions may be celibate you are not celibate. ii) Do not be attached to the objects of desire,if you have given up worldly ways.
Originally posted by rwingettActually I think they might be more willing to accept birth control into the religion if they are directly affected or if they have sensible wives talking to them. As it is, we have a whole lot of people who don't have children telling everyone else to have far too many children.
They should remain celibate. The last thing the world needs is more bloody Catholics.
Celibacy itself is the root of all sexual abuse in the catholic church.
Sex is a powerfull 'thing'. It awakes desires that may lead the chosen ones from the path to God. We can't have that, can we? We need to have full focus on God. So it's forbidden. Let's call it Lucifer. That should scare the hell out of them. In fact it is fear. Fear that Lucifer is stronger than God. And when that happens in the minds, the church is lost.
Celibacy should be a free choice, which it is not because you lose your holy job. But because you had an disturbing night yesterday, it must be kept a secret. Seven years of hard work down the drain. More punishments; 100 times 'Peter should not think about Pamela'.
Sexual desires can not be pushed aside until you die. They need to be lived to be able to live a celibate life one day, if that's what you pleases. All in respect with your sexual partner(s) ofcourse. Sex that's been held secretly in the dungeons becomes an ugly monster.
When a person comes to spiritual life and are submissive to spiritual instruction they are at once instructed to follow 4 religious principle or pillars of religion.
These for pillars are the foundations of the beginning of the spiritual life - and without them your spiritual life will not begin.
The 4 pillars of religion are..
1. No meat eating.
2. no illicit sex
3. no intoxication and drugs.
4. no gambling and speculation.
As regards to (no illicit sex) it is sex outside of marriage and even sex within marriage is controlled.
The spiritual life is all about controlling the mind and senses and without such control the person cannot advance along the path of spiritual realization culminating in love of God.
Persons who are attached to sex cannot obtain the grace of the Lord - for they are putting sex on the same level as God realization.
Originally posted by DasaDo you find yourself fighting off the women?
When a person comes to spiritual life and are submissive to spiritual instruction they are at once instructed to follow 4 religious principle or pillars of religion.
These for pillars are the foundations of the beginning of the spiritual life - and without them your spiritual life will not begin.
The 4 pillars of religion are..
1. No meat eating.
2. ...[text shortened]... ot obtain the grace of the Lord - for they are putting sex on the same level as God realization.
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The post that was quoted here has been removedWhether or not celibacy is in itself a desirable religious state, I do not believe the abolition of mandatory celibacy would really redress the current vocations crisis that the Catholic Church is experiencing. In fact, there are three situations in which a married man may become a priest in the Catholic Church. First, married men of Eastern Catholic churches (in communion with the pope) are permitted to be ordained. Also, Roman Catholic men (that is, men not just 'Roman Catholic' by religion but also in terms of jurisdiction) may become Eastern Catholic and therefore be ordained. Second, ministers of Lutheran and Anglican communions who convert to Catholicism may also seek ordination even if married. Third, in extreme cases, a married person entering religious life, with the consent of the other partner to abnegate all conjugal rights, may profess religious vows and then seek ordination. Only in the third case would continence be strictly required.
Now only the first case is a relevant comparison. If Eastern Catholic churches are suffering a similar vocations crisis, then that suggests that celibacy is not strictly the issue. I am unaware of numbers but I know that at least in Melbourne the Ukranian Catholic Church has not seen an ordination in over a decade and its priests are aging too. Just speculating, I think the reason we are seeing declining number is from a lot of factors: the priesthood is no longer a highly esteemed vocation; life is much more affordable and profitable outside the church; the Catholic priesthood is very challenging whether celibate or married; there are fewer practicing devout Catholics.
Ceibacy is no good if you have been harbouring secret sexual thoughts. You may be celibate for 20 years, but if you are repressing then your sexual desires may still come out. So that's 20 years wasted,imo.
Sex is for the younger people .
The sexual energy,(jissom), risies up through the chakras to create an enlightened person. So sexual energy has 2 or 3 major functions (the other 1 or 2 being Physical pleasure and procreation).
There is no point in kidding ourselves with this subject for it is at the base of all our desires. It is most definately like a drug in many ways and hence should be "diluted" out of your life when you are ready.
Originally posted by SakeSo what is at the root of sexual abuse in all the other Churches?
Celibacy itself is the root of all sexual abuse in the catholic church.
I for one have never seen any evidence that sexual abuse is higher in churches with Celibate priests than in Churches with married priest. Can you provide any evidence that suggests that is the case?
Originally posted by karoly aczelIts only wasted if your sole aim is to remain celibate. I don't think that is the sole aim of Catholic priests (or most other people who choose to remain celibate). Even if they turned into sex maniacs after 20 years, I still don't think they would consider their 20 years of celibacy a waste.
Ceibacy is no good if you have been harbouring secret sexual thoughts. You may be celibate for 20 years, but if you are repressing then your sexual desires may still come out. So that's 20 years wasted,imo.
Sex is for the younger people .
I disagree, and so to would most people who are no longer so young.
There is no point in kidding ourselves with this subject for it is at the base of all our desires.
I disagree. I don't think sex has anything to do with some of my desires.
It is most definately like a drug in many ways and hence should be "diluted" out of your life when you are ready.
There is nothing inherently wrong with drugs unless they are harmful - and even then, their harm must be weighed against the joy we get from them. I for one do not do what are generally termed 'drugs', nor do I drink alcohol. But I do like coffee very much. If alcohol didn't cause so many car accidents and liver damage, I would probably say 'drink as much as you like!'.
True celibacy can only be achieved with the raising of the consciousness.
The consciousness in material life is practically on the same level as hogs, dogs, camels and asses and with this consciousness no person can be celibate.
To achieve true celibacy one must raise the consciousness to the transcendental platform of love of God through following the Vedic process of purification.
Any person not purifying mind and heart cannot be celibate..
