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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    28 Feb '18 07:23 / 1 edit
    In the NT Christ is the very "PLACE" of propitiation.

    Concerning Christ Romans 3:25 has Paul writing

    [Christ] “Whom God set forth a propitiation-cover through faith in His blood.”


    The identification with the ark of the covenant in Exodus is unmistakable.

    "God has set forth Christ Jesus as a propitiatory cover. As the propitiation cover, Christ is the One who shed His blood and who shines with the glory of God." WL
  2. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    28 Feb '18 07:27 / 3 edits
    From Life Study of Exodus by Witness Lee (Living Stream Ministry publishers).
    [my bolding]
    The Greek word rendered propitiation-cover in Romans 3:25 is hilasterion. It refers to the place of propitiation. For this reason, in Hebrews 9:5 it is used for the cover, the lid, of the ark. In Exodus 25:17-22 and Leviticus 16:12-16, the Septuagint also uses this word for the cover of the ark. In Hebrews 2:17 Paul uses the Greek word hilaskomai, which means to appease, to reconcile one by satisfying the other's demand; hence, it means to propitiate. According to Hebrews 2:17, the Lord Jesus made propitiation for our sins to reconcile us to God by satisfying God's righteous demands on us. Both in 1 John 2:2 and 4:10 the Greek word hilasmos is used. This word denotes something which propitiates, that is, a propitiatory sacrifice. In 1 John 2:2 and 4:10 the Lord Jesus is the propitiatory sacrifice for our sins. Therefore, two apostles, the completing apostle and the mending apostle, used Greek words related to propitiation. Both were concerned with matters related to Christ as the living ark.


    [my bolding]
    Translators sometimes have had difficulty with the words hilasterion, hilasmos, and hilaskomai. Hilasterion denotes the place of propitiation; hilasmos denotes a propitiatory sacrifice; and hilaskomai means to propitiate. Propitiation is needed when one party is indebted to another and unable to meet that party's demands and requirements. Should a third party appear on the scene, he may solve the problem between the first two parties by paying what the first party owes and causing the second party to be satisfied with this payment. This is precisely what the Lord Jesus did in offering Himself as the propitiatory sacrifice to solve our problems with God.


    See - https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=22C34C2BF5
  3. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    28 Feb '18 07:49
    Christ is the sinner's propitiatory cover, The conscience is at peace in Jesus Christ. It is a supernatural matter that the believer knows that Christ died for him and is at peace.

    The blood of Christ is the emblem of His death.
    We are to picture that His blood is sprinkled for us on the propitiatory cover to satisfy the requirements of God's righteousness.

    The KJV called this place on the ark "the mercy seat".


    Believing in the redeeming blood of Christ supernaturally puts the spiritual being at peace. We can sense God asking “My child, are you happy?”. And we knowing that deep within that He has carried away our sins may respond, “Yes, yes, I am very happy, Father.”

    I believe God is even happier. It may require eternity to know how happy the Father is to have his lost creatures back as His dear children.

    There can be the experiential enjoyment of Christ as the propitiatory cover on the ark of the testimony. We may enjoy intimate fellowship with God. Christ becomes a whole realm and a whole sphere of peace with God.

    This is also a life changing peace. This can be am empowering peace transforming the way we live.


    This vision of Christ as the ark with the propitiatory cover is wonderful and inexhaustible. I hope that after hearing of such a Christ, the Christ who lives in you will become much more precious to you than ever before. The Christ who dwells in us is not simply the Lamb; He is the ark with the cap, the top part. He is the all-inclusive Christ living in us for our continual enjoyment and experience. Because we have such a Christ, we need not be troubled by anything. God's righteousness does not condemn us. On the contrary, His glory justifies us, and God Himself is happy, knowing that everything between us and Him is in harmony and that we can freely enjoy a mutually satisfying fellowship.


    From Life Study of Exodus by Witness Lee
    https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=22C34C2BF5
  4. Standard member apathist
    looking for loot
    01 Mar '18 12:30
    I was thinking, a real god does not need your mouth.
  5. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    01 Mar '18 12:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @apathist
    I was thinking, a real god does not need your mouth.
    Why does not a real god not need my mouth ?

    If your comment is serious I'll discuss it.
    Does God Need Humanity?

    If this is just a hit and run snark which you are too "apathetic" to talk about in an adult fashion, happy trolling.

    You tell me what you want.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    01 Mar '18 12:57
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Why does not a real god not need my mouth ?
    As a matter of interest, would you ever consider 'retiring' as a self-appointed preacher if you started to think that your persona was in fact repelling people from your religion?
  7. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    01 Mar '18 13:15
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Why does not a real god not need my mouth ?

    If your comment is serious I'll discuss it.
    Does God Need Humanity?

    If this is just a hit and run snark which you are too "apathetic" to talk about in an adult fashion, happy trolling.

    You tell me what you want.
    God needs your mouth to faithfully and truthfully preach the Gospel preached by his Son Jesus Christ. Therefore God does not care for your preaching.
  8. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    01 Mar '18 21:40
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    God needs your mouth to faithfully and truthfully preach the Gospel preached by his Son Jesus Christ. Therefore God does not care for your preaching.
    There you go again, spewing hate and condemning people again.
  9. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    01 Mar '18 23:23 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @fmf
    As a matter of interest, would you ever consider 'retiring' as a self-appointed preacher if you started to think that your persona was in fact repelling people from your religion?
    Not before I include this wonderful bit of ministry from The Life Study of Romans by Witness Lee for those who are hungry to know more about Christ - the propitiation place [my bolding and spacing]

    B. The Redemption in the New Testament
    1. The Propitiation

    The expiation in the Old Testament was a type of the propitiation in the New Testament. Propitiation is mentioned at least five times in the New Testament. In 1 John 2:2 and 4:10 we are told that Christ, the Son of God, is Himself the propitiation for our sins.

    In both places the word propitiation actually means a sacrifice and should be rendered “propitiatory sacrifice.” The Greek word in these verses is hilasmos, which means “that which propitiates,” that is, a propitiatory sacrifice. In 1 John 2:2 and 4:10 the Lord Jesus is the propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

    Another Greek word regarding propitiation, hilasterion, is found in Hebrews 9:5 and Romans 3:25. Hilasterion means the place where propitiation was made. The proper reference books indicate that the word hilasterion in these two verses means the place of propitiation, and the King James Version renders it as “mercy seat.” In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, hilasterion is the word for the term “mercy seat” in Exodus 25 and Leviticus 16. Thus, hilasterion is the place of propitiation. Furthermore, in Hebrews 2:17 is the word hilaskomai, the verbal form of the noun hilasmos. The King James Version translates hilaskomai as “make reconciliation for”; however, it should be translated “propitiate.”

    Christ propitiates for our sins. The matter of propitiation is mentioned five times in the New Testament in relation to Christ: twice it refers to Christ Himself as the propitiatory sacrifice, twice it refers to the place where propitiation was accomplished, and once it refers to the action of propitiation.

    In addition to these five references to propitiation in the New Testament, we find the same root used by the publican in his prayer in the temple (Luke 18:13). According to the King James Version, the publican prayed, “God, be merciful to me.” However, the Greek means, “Propitiate for me.” The publican actually was saying, “O God, propitiate for me. I am sinful in Your eyes. I need propitiation.”

    What is the meaning of propitiation? How shall we distinguish it from redemption on the one hand and reconciliation on the other? If we read the New Testament carefully, we will discover that reconciliation includes propitiation. Nevertheless, there is a difference between them. Propitiation means that you have a problem with another person. You have either offended him or else you owe him something. For instance, if I wrong you or am otherwise in debt to you, a problem exists between us. Because of this problem or debt, you have a demand upon me, and unless your demand is satisfied the problem between us cannot be resolved. Thus, there is the need for propitiation.

    The Greek word hilasmos implies that I have wronged you and that now I am indebted to you. There is a problem between us that hinders our relationship. Propitiation, therefore, involves two parties, one of which has wronged the other, has become indebted to the other, and must act to satisfy the demands of the other. If the offending party is to appease the offended party, he must fulfill his demands. The Septuagint uses the word hilasmos for the word atonement in Leviticus 25:9 and Numbers 5:8 because this Greek word means to conciliate two parties and make them one. This is a matter of atonement.



    https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=049ED22B9E
  10. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    01 Mar '18 23:28 / 1 edit
    At the place of the HILASTERION At-Onement takes place between us and God.

    The word atone is composed of two words, “at” and “one.” We may write the word atonement this way: at-one-ment. Atonement is at-one-ment. The meaning of atonement is to bring two parties into one. When two parties have been separated and seek to be in oneness, there is the need for propitiation. This is atonement. The action of propitiation is atonement.

    Propitiation means to make us one with God because there had been a separation between us and God. What was the problem that kept us from God, that made it impossible to have direct fellowship with Him? The problem was our sins. Our sins kept us away from God's presence and hindered God from coming to us. Therefore, we needed propitiation to appease God's demands. Christ accomplished this on the cross when He offered Himself as the propitiatory sacrifice. On the cross He propitiated for us and brought us back to God, making us one with God.


    From Life Study of Romans by Witness Lee

    Read more at

    https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=049ED22B9E
  11. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    02 Mar '18 00:45
    Originally posted by @fmf
    As a matter of interest, would you ever consider 'retiring' as a self-appointed preacher if you started to think that your persona was in fact repelling people from your religion?
    Would you consider retiring your narcissistic trolling if you thought most everyone was pretty sick and repelled by it here ?
  12. 02 Mar '18 01:09
    Originally posted by @apathist
    I was thinking, a real god does not need your mouth.
    The real truth doesn't need your protection.

    Where's that going to end?
  13. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    02 Mar '18 01:28 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Would you consider retiring your narcissistic trolling if you thought most everyone was pretty sick and repelled by it here ?
    Well, I am not the one trying to sell a package of superstitious notions. Absolutely nothing is at stake for someone listening to me or not listening to me. Absolutely nothing at all.

    You are the one who claims that what you say here is a matter of 'eternal torment' v 'eternal paradise'.

    If you really believed in the 'eternal torment' thing ~ I mean, if you really truly believed that people were in genuine peril ~ and if you thought that your behaviour and demeanour might be turning people away from your religion and delivering them up to that peril, surely you would consider reeling yourself in?
  14. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    02 Mar '18 03:52
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Well, I am not the one trying to sell a package of superstitious notions. Absolutely nothing is at stake for someone listening to me or not listening to me. Absolutely nothing at all.

    You are the one who claims that what you say here is a matter of 'eternal torment' v 'eternal paradise'.

    If you really believed in the 'eternal torment' thing ~ I mean, if ...[text shortened]... ur religion and delivering them up to that peril, surely you would consider reeling yourself in?
    So you’re the arbiter of whether sonship is helping to lead people to Christ?

    If sonship leads even a single person to Christ, or even to begin an investigation into whether Christianity is true, he’s done a tremendous service.

    And I highly doubt, based on posts of his that I’ve read, that he’s causing anyone to reject Christianity who hadn’t already rejected it in his or her heart.
  15. Standard member karoly aczel
    the Devil himself
    02 Mar '18 03:53
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Why does not a real god not need my mouth ?

    If your comment is serious I'll discuss it.
    Does God Need Humanity?

    If this is just a hit and run snark which you are too "apathetic" to talk about in an adult fashion, happy trolling.

    You tell me what you want.
    Well!!