Christ is all the "things"

Originally posted by FMF
"You hear [me] saying..." [INSERT sonship's straw man HERE]. Nice try, albeit a trick you resort to way too often. What I am saying is clearly laid out in what I have written.

Kind of like one of your leading innuendo questions perhaps.

"You mean to say .......[insert what you want Christian to be saying] ? "

Originally posted by sonship
Kind of like one of your leading innuendo questions perhaps.

"You mean to say .......[insert what you want Christian to be saying] ? "

When I ask questions like that, I am seeking clarification, as you well know. And I then engage the clarified version of what is being discussed in subsequent posts... if one is offered. The "I hear you saying..." of yours on the previous page was a blatant example of the way you so often try to AVOID engaging what has actually and clearly been put to you.

Originally posted by FMF
When I ask questions like that, I am seeking clarification, as you well know. And I then engage the clarified version of what is being discussed in subsequent posts... if one is offered. The "I hear you saying..." of yours on the previous page was a blatant example of the way you so often try to AVOID engaging what has actually and clearly been put to you.

He just cannot answer.

Sonship says THINK AND TALK.
while Jesus says DO, and those who only ';think and talk' get no eternal life.

Sonship is lost in the foolishness of the doctrine of men.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Sonship says THINK AND TALK.
while Jesus says DO.

I suppose this is the essence of what I am on about, but it would pain me to be so concise. 😛

Originally posted by FMF
I suppose this is the essence of what I am on about, but it would pain me to be so concise. 😛

Meaningless talk is condemned by Christ, because these people are lovers of themselves.
Sonship for example, demonstrates over and over that he is a lover of himself. He is a narcissist. He is a talker and proclaimer of the doctrine of men. He relishes in the suffering of those who do not believe in his doctrine.

DOERS are the ones who truly love God.

Whew !

For a moment readers, take your eyes off of me and look again at the subject here - Christ is all the "things". Here is another proof that believers should see that the resurrected and living, available Jesus Christ - is, contains, and embodies all the wonderful "things" we need to live the abundant life.

Christ as a "SEED" is implanted into receivers of Christ. In the SEED is the sinless life. The life power to overcome sin is totally the ingredients of the seed of Christ.

Because this seed has all the ingredients to live the highest level of godly human life the Apostle John puts ALL of his confidence in the seed. Right here:

" ... For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His [God's] seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God." (1 John 3:8b-9)

All the life power is in the seed - Christ.
All the victory is in the life of the seed - Christ.

If the seed is watered and allowed to grow there is no possibility that the life of the seed in the man will sin. By process and transformation the work of the devil is vanquished by the life embodied in the seed.

This is absolutely another way of saying - Christ is all the "things". This is the very biblical way to say this.

John's complete confidence is in the relationship of being BORN of this new life.
John's full hope set before the Christians is in the essence of the SEED of God that is implanted into the innermost being of a believer's spiritual being.

Originally posted by Rajk999

Meaningless talk is condemned by Christ, because these people are lovers of themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He's right folks. I am a lover of the self.
In fact all of us human beings to one degree or another are lovers of self.

Now, how can we be delivered from self love ?
And how is this salvation related to Christ is all the "things".

Okay, so the sinner is enlightened to see he has self pity, self love, selfishness, and self centeredness. What does he do ?

He must appropriate by faith the truth and reality of the Gospel. He has BEEN crucified with Christ. Before he was born he was crucified and buried with Christ. God rejected the whole thing of the self in Christ. And to this reality the believers must not be ignorant.

" I am crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me ..." (Gal 2:20a)

These are not just good sounding words. This are promises of God to STAND upon and place before God in faith in order to appropriate their effectiveness. Paul pioneered the way and showed us how.

What I am was crucified with Christ.
All that I have and can do was crucified with Christ.

Paul tells the Christians in Rome not to be ignorant that they have been buried with Christ and baptized into His death.

" What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin that grace may abound?

Absolutely not! We who have DIED to sin, how shall we still live in it?

Or are you ignorant that all of us [including Paul too] who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life. " (Romans 6:1-4)

Do you have any idea what transformation will take place in your living if you lay hold of promises like this first thing in the morning each day ? Around you those who know you will eventually see a difference - a wonderful difference.

"Lord Jesus, I thank You. Somehow by the power of God, I was crucified with You. By God's power I was also BURIED with You. Today Lord Jesus I am risen with You to walk, step by step, in "newness of life". Thankyou Lord Jesus for my co-death and co-resurrection with You.

Thankyou Lord that I can totally be identified with all your work of death and resurrection."

Originally posted by sonship
These are not just good sounding words.

To be brutally frank, sonship, they're not even that.

You were "crucifed" with Christ?

Do I get tortured forever if I honestly don't think you were?

Now let me please bring two verses together absolutely.

First John 3:9 about the seed of God in which there is no sin and Romans 6:4,5 (especially verse 5)

A SEED is of course an entity which must grow.
Any seed is expected to grow and expand its life, spreading, developing, and encreasing.

And in the Romans 6 passage it is crucial to see how Paul uses the word phrase "grown together with Him", Right here, Look.

" ... in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life.

FOR ... if we have GROWN TOGETHER with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection." (Rom. 6: 4b,5)

Coming into Christ likeness is a matter of the growth of divine life within us.
We first receive Him as a seed of God. Then we growth together with Him as He expands, increases, permeates, and develops Himself within us.

Someone may say "But you said we were crucified with Christ".

Yes, the Christians should not be ignorant the he has a co-death and co-burial with Christ when Christ went through these things. This is a extremely powerful reality and must penetrate into our experience by growth and development.

This reality is unto eternity. It is too wonderful and too real. But rather than obliterate us it is appropriated gradually by process of growing with the growth of Christ within.

Remember, we talked about Paul wanting to present every man "full-grown in Christ" to God?

The natural man can hardly give up the idea that he has SOMETHING he can present to God.

Now along the way he gets the idea that his bad and evil things he cannot present to God. He eventually gets it that God cannot use his sins, his evils, his dirtiness and iniquity. So he is willing to at least part from that.

But latter he sees that neither can God use his good things. His good nature, his natural kindness, his natural humbleness, his natural wit - neither can God use these for His kingdom.

What God can use and ONLY is Christ. The whole other thing of Adam is rejected. Both the good and the bad - crucified with Christ - buried with Christ.

For this reason Paul, our pioneer, said all the things of which he was formerly proud, he counts as dung [i]in comparison[/b] to the excellency of knowing Christ. All his pedigree he counts as dogfood, as refuse.

The whole thing is rejected by God for His kingdom.
The whole thing is useless to God. Only Christ and Christ wrought into Paul is of value.

Here are the things that Paul was formerly very proud of. They may not mean anything to some of us. But they meant a lot to Paul and his world.

"Though I myself have something to be confident in the flesh as well, If any other man things that he has cofindence in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day;
of the tribe of Benjamin,
a Hebrew of Hebrews'
as to the law, a Pharisee'
as to zeal, persecuting the church;
as to righteousness which is in the law, become blameless." (Phil. 3:4-6)

These were the things which made this educated, scholarly, zealous religious Jew proud.
This was his pristine pedigree.
But now in Christ he counts all those things as unable to be compared to what Christ is.

"But what things were gains to me, these I have counted loss on account of Christ.

But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ

and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law; but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith, ..." (vs. 7-9)

It reminds me of the words to a modern hymn -

"Turn your eyes upon Jesus.
Look full into His wonderful face.
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace."

Lyrics and Music: Helen Howarth Lemmel (1863-1961)


Here's the tune and lyrics

https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/645
Its true.

Originally posted by Rajk999

DOERS are the ones who truly love God.

You are no doubt referring to the book of James ?

But notice that James also says all the gifts come from the Father. He is the Source of the life which produces all the good works.

'All good giving and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights,with whom is no variation or shadow cast by turning." (James 1:17)

The Father begets sons whose good works must come out of the divine life just as I said.

James continues:

" He brought us forth by the word of truth, purposely that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." (v.18)

The doing, James insists, comes out of the life which has been begotten in the Christians. In fact it is this living word of God as a seed which is able to save the soul in every way.

" Therefore putting away all filthiness and the abundance of malice, receive in meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21)

This should remind you of the divine SEED in which there is no sin and no sinning in John's Fist Epistle.

Originally posted by sonship

DOERS are the ones who truly love God.

You are no doubt referring to the book of [b]James ?
[/b]

You no doubt, do not know the Bible. Jesus and ALL the Apostles said the very same thing.

DOERS ARE THE ONES THAT LOVE GOD AND WILL GET ETERNAL LIFE.
Jesus said it.
Paul said it.
Peter said it.
James said it.
John said it.
Jude said it.

The only ones that do not say it are false Christians like Lee and Nee, who said that think and talk* alone gets you into the Kingdom of God. Idiots follow that doctrine, because Think and talk* is the road to damnation

Doing is the road to eternal life.

[* The expression 'think and talk' is copyrighted by FMF 😀]

Originally posted by Rajk999
You no doubt, do not know the Bible. Jesus and ALL the Apostles said the very same thing.


Jesus said it.
Paul said it.
Peter said it.
James said it.
John said it.
Jude said it.

The only ones that do not say it are false Christians like Lee and Nee, who said that think and talk* alone gets you into the Kingdom of God. Idiots follow that doctri ...[text shortened]... ng is the road to eternal life.

[* The expression 'think and talk' is copyrighted by FMF 😀]

The man you call a "false Christian" gives here a brief account of his conversion and early service to the Lord Jesus.

In the spring of 1920, when Nee was 17, Dora Yu was invited to hold ten days of revival meetings[8] in the Church of Heavenly Peace in Fuzhou.[9] After Nee's mother attended these meetings, she was moved to apologize to her son for a previous incident of unjust punishment. Her action impressed Nee so much that he determined to attend the next day's evangelistic meetings to see what was taking place there. After returning from the meeting, according to Nee's own account:

On the evening of 28th April, 1920, I was alone in my room, struggling to decide whether or not to believe in the Lord. At first I was reluctant but as I tried to pray I saw the magnitude of my sins and the reality and efficacy of Jesus as the Saviour. As I visualized the Lord's hands stretched out on the cross, they seemed to be welcoming me and the Lord was saying, "I am waiting here to receive you." Realizing the effectiveness of Christ's blood in cleansing my sins and being overwhelmed by such love, I accepted him there. Previously I had laughed at people who had accepted Jesus, but that evening the experience became real for me and I wept and confessed my sins, seeking the Lord's forgiveness. As I made my first prayer I knew joy and peace such as I had never known before. Light seemed to flood the room and I said to the Lord, "Oh, Lord, you have indeed been gracious to me."

— Watchman Nee, Watchman Nee's Testimony.
As a student at Trinity College, Nee began to speak to his classmates concerning his salvation experience. Later, he recounted:

Immediately I started putting right the matters that were hindering my effectiveness, and also made a list of seventy friends to pray for daily. Some days I would pray for them every hour, even in class. When the opportunity came I would try to persuade them to believe in the Lord Jesus... With the Lord's grace I continued to pray daily, and after several months all but one of the seventy persons were saved.

— Watchman Nee, Watchman Nee's Testimony.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchman_Nee

This is not putting a man on a pedestal. This is correcting the slander of a person like yourself who seems to have no spiritual discernment.

Please explain how this sentence makes the statement of this thread or its OP not true. That is that Christ is all the "things."

DOERS ARE THE ONES THAT LOVE GOD AND WILL GET ETERNAL LIFE.

Exactly how does this sentence above from you render false that -

" ... of Him [God] you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God: both righteousness and sanctification and redemption." (1 Cor. 1:30)

Originally posted by sonship
The man you call a "false Christian" gives here a brief account of his conversion and early service to the Lord Jesus.

In the spring of 1920, when Nee was 17, Dora Yu was invited to hold ten days of revival meetings[8] in the Church of Heavenly Peace in Fuzhou.[9] After Nee's mother attended these meetings, she was moved to apologize to her son f ...[text shortened]... us from God: both righteousness and sanctification and redemption." (1 Cor. 1:30)

[/b]

Nee and his conversion is of no interest to me as that is between him and Christ. His doctrine which you follow like a blind idiot is what constitutes placing a man on a pedestal because his doctrine is not of Christ hence the term 'false Christian'.

Thinking and talking ONLY as a means to enter the Kingdom of God, is contrary to everything in the Bible. God rewards DOERS and DOERS will enter the Kingdom of God, not hearers, not talkers, not thinkers.. . DOERS. Let me know if you need references.