1. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    24 Feb '17 22:46
    Originally posted by sonship
    If you have a better way to be a human being, tell the Forum about it.
    Some of us are going to take the way of believing God's word.
    But I have been reading your stuff for years and your posts scarcely ever deal with anything to do with a "better way to be a human being".

    Indeed you seem to stear well clear of anything like that, choosing instead to offer only this elaborate blend of vanity and a myriad of assertions.

    I have called upon you numerous times to talk about how your spiritual ideology might be translated into a better way to be a human being, something which countless Christmas I have known do as a matter of course.

    But your manifesto is purely one of copious words about thoughts, and not one of deeds or of the practical application of your beliefs to the details of living a vivid life.

    Such things you always run a mile from.
  2. PenTesting
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    247859
    24 Feb '17 23:00
    Originally posted by sonship
    Good for you. Tell us about your better way to live.
    The better way to live is the way Christ recommended, as this is the only way to enter the Kingdom of God. However, nothing you say is from the teachings of Christ.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
    Moves
    36571
    25 Feb '17 13:41
    Originally posted by FMF
    But I have been reading your stuff for years and your posts scarcely ever deal with anything to do with a "better way to be a human being".

    Indeed you seem to stear well clear of anything like that, choosing instead to offer only this elaborate blend of vanity and a myriad of assertions.

    I have called upon you numerous times to talk about how your spirit ...[text shortened]... your beliefs to the details of living a vivid life.

    Such things you always run a mile from.
    And yet when I write about "living the more abundant life", you excoriate me fiercely, mostly based on your own inexperienced assumptions.

    Perhaps he's learned from this. We've seen this "talking out of both sides of your mouth" behavior from you before. Assertions and vanity, indeed.
  4. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    25 Feb '17 14:08
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    And yet when I write about "living the more abundant life", you excoriate me fiercely, mostly based on your own inexperienced assumptions.
    I didn't "excoriate [you] fiercely". You are utterly paranoid and deluded, Suzianne. We can pull up the thread and look.
  5. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    25 Feb '17 14:09
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Perhaps [sonship's] learned from this. We've seen this "talking out of both sides of your mouth" behavior from you before. Assertions and vanity, indeed.
    I think sonship's reaction demonstrates that part of him knows I have hit the nail on the head.
  6. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    25 Feb '17 23:39
    We have two wonderful things in Jesus Christ.

    First we have a perfect Person.
    Second we have Someone who is able to distribute His life into other lives.

    These are two astounding matters. That a perfect human lived is a very significant thing.
    But that God is able to dispense this life into other lives in an "organic" infusion means that His perfection is not just for Himself. He lived such a life that He could be compounded with others.

    When the Hebrews entered into the good land they divided up into portions for each tribe. This is seen in Joshua. The good land of Canaan became in distributed portions to the Hebrews.

    Paul says that Christ is "the portion of the saints". He is the allotment to each believer. He is the rich blessing we have coming to each of us who are saved - Christ Himself as our allotment, as our portion.

    "Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the allotted portion of the saints in the light." (Col. 1:12)


    Christ is the Divine / Human Promised Land. The Christian has to realize that the rich price he has coming to him is Christ. The allotted treasure to be distributed to each believer is none other than the Person of Christ.

    In the same letter Paul says God wills to make known what are the riches of this Christ. We vastly underestimate how rich Christ is and can be to us when God dispenses Christ to us.

    " ... God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of thus mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you the hope of glory." (Col. 1:27b)


    This post is about what we Christians should have utter hope in and expectation of what is coming to us. What do we expect? We expect Christ. What do we have coming to us ? We have Christ coming to us.

    If you are a believer and you are concerned about your share, you must realize your share is Christ . Nothing is richer or surpasses the worth of Christ .

    I have coming to me - Christ and more Christ.
    My entitled benefit is Christ . Nothing and no one is more precious than He, this Perfect One who can come into us. He can compound with us. He can be distributed to us so that we GROW in Christ.

    In the same letter Paul said his ambition in his ministry with his co-workers, was to present every man "fullgrown in Christ". He labored that all the saints would receive and enjoy ALL the Christ that was there for them as their allotted portion.

    Right here:

    " [Christ] Whom we announce, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom that we may present every man full-grown in Christ;

    For which I also labor, struggling according to His operation which operates in me in power." (Col. 1:28,29)


    Christ is like the divine power steering. Christ can blend, and compound and mingle His life with our lives. This is why He removes totally the guilt of our sins by His blood. He removes the guilt of our sins so that He can operate the eternal purpose of God to dispense God in Christ into those who receive Him.

    Paul labored and dreamed about this. He wanted to appear before Christ saying something like -

    "Lord Jesus, here are the sinners that I preached to. I not only told them how to be saved. I labored on their behalf by your operation, that I may present them "full-grown" in Christ. That is filled up in Christ and fully enjoying their allotted portion of Christ in all His riches. "
  7. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    25 Feb '17 23:521 edit
    Let's examine the phrase that Christ is the fullness of God.

    " For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell." (Col. 1:19)


    Just like the phrase "allotted portion of the saints" seems to hail back to the Good Land being distributed out to the Israelites, so "the fullness" reminds us of phrases in the Old Testament too.

    "The earth ... and the fullness thereof" (Psalm 24:1)


    This means the earth and everything it includes is the full blessing to its inhabitants.

    "The sea and its fullness" (Psalm 96:11)


    God in these sentences wanted to impress us with first the earth and all the things of the earth. God wanted to impress us with the sea and all that belongs to the sea.

    Christ is the fullness of God. This means that Christ is all the things of God.
    This means Christ is God and all the riches of God. The things of God as His fullness DWELL in Christ.

    All the things of God are simply bits of Christ. In Him dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

    "For in Him [Christ] dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,

    And you have been made full in Him, Who is the Head of all rule and authority." (Col. 2:9,10)
  8. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    26 Feb '17 13:19
    So one poster has said that what I have written has nothing to do with entering into the Kingdom of God as Christ recommended. He says I did not write anything according to "the teaching of Christ".

    Maybe this man doesn't regard the New Testament as a whole "the teaching of Christ."
    I don't know.

    But here we see from the so-called "red letters" of the synoptic Gospel of Matthew, Jesus speaking of entering the full reward of the kingdom of the heavens.

    We'll see how it is exactly the same as what I have been saying.

    " Then said Jesus to His disciples, If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me." (Matt. 15:24)


    This does not mean just to suffer. It does not mean everyone having a difficult time is bearing his or her "cross".

    This means to deny the enjoyment of one thing in exchange for enjoying something else and better. What is it that Jesus is saying we must deny? It is the SELF.

    Now if an unbeliever denies himself, he really has nothing left. He has denied all that he has. But for the Christian, to deny himself is to turn from the self to enjoy the bounty and riches of Someone ELSE. That is the Christ that he is following.

    Christ is the LEFTOVERS. Christ is the unsearchably rich treasure of LEFTOVERS after someone denies himself in order to lay hold of Jesus Christ.

    "Let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.

    For whoever wants to save his soul life shall lose it; but whoever loses his soul-life for My sake shall find it." (v.25)


    Understandably, this is a bit unusual. It is tricky. In order to FIND your true indentity you must lose the soul-life that you inherited from the fall of man, from the collapse of humanity through Adam's disobedience. But the Christian who follows Jesus has LEFTOVERS. These leftovers are the unsearchable treasures of humanity and divinity which Christ is for them.

    In discovering these riches of human virtues in Christ the disciples FINDS his true identity. He is in fact a God-man. He was intended to always be a man in union with God, blended with God, and following the flow of God.

    It is not just BAD things that the follower must deny.
    It is also GOOD things that he must deny in order to pick up his cross and follow Jesus.

    The soul-life which Jesus says to deny is the total independent from God thing which we inherited from the fall of Adam. It is not our TRUE being. To FIND our true identity we cannot follow our fallen self. Instead to enter into the kingdom of the heavens we deny that fallen corrupted independent soul-life to follow the perfect life of the Son of God.
  9. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    26 Feb '17 13:474 edits
    Originally posted by FMF




    But your manifesto is purely one of copious words about thoughts, and not one of deeds or of the practical application of your beliefs to the details of living a vivid life.

    Such things you always run a mile from.[/b]
    But I have been reading your stuff for years and your posts scarcely ever deal with anything to do with a "better way to be a human being".
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For years we have seen you act as a policeman here. You seem to be on a mission to make sure no one believes anything too much.

    "Militant middle of the road" is how one person once put it.
    Someone else said some people are "cautious failures."

    Christ is more than a better way to live. Christ is the perfect life.
    The gospel is that Christ is not only the perfect life but that He is available to live in us.

    1.) Christ is the Perfect Life

    2.) Christ is available to blend and compound into man's life.

    This is probably an abomination to you because you think

    1. God is not.
    2. Christ is not God-man
    3. Christ is not perfect living
    4. Christ is not available to be applied to our living.
    5. There is no need for salvation.


    Indeed you seem to stear well clear of anything like that, choosing instead to offer only this elaborate blend of vanity and a myriad of assertions.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This thread is steering quite directly into living with Christ.

    This thread is giving attention to the Source of the highest form of living - Christ.

    Here Jesus indicated that if the tree was good the fruit would be good. This thread is about how believers should give utmost attention to the Source - the life into Whom we are grafted as saved people - into Christ.

    "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt; for by the fruit the tree is known." (Matt. 12:33)


    Many of us Christians are learning to give utmost attention to the tree. The fruit produced will be fine if the right right tree is the source.


    I have called upon you numerous times to talk about how your spiritual ideology might be translated into a better way to be a human being, something which countless Christmas I have known do as a matter of course.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The benefit of this teaching will not "translate" into anything useful for you because of the above mentioned points of your ideology.


    1. God is not.
    2. Christ is not God-man
    3. Christ is not perfect living
    4. Christ is not available to be applied to our living.
    5. There is no need for salvation.


    I hear you saying, "Well how can you make all this of some practical use for me who doesn't believe God exists, who doesn't believe Christ is the Son of God, who doesn't believe Christ rose or that Christ is available, and who essentially is on his own and needs no redemption or salvation from God ?"

    I can't.

    But your manifesto is purely one of copious words about thoughts, and not one of deeds or of the practical application of your beliefs to the details of living a vivid life.

    Such things you always run a mile from.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Its it a little peculiar that you seem to be a "against everybody" here.

    You have spoken disdainfully about my writing. Let me say that the only time I just may sit up and do more than a cursory glance at your posts is when you actually start to write something positive about Spirituality.

    To police the Spirituality thread making sure that no one stands for anything too much, seems to be your mission here.

    Anyway, i like the term "Manifesto" there. The Christian's "Manifesto" is the New Testament. And we have thousands of models of communities on the five continents where many are "inheriting the promises" and followers of those who are, with patience and a teachable spirit.
  10. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    26 Feb '17 17:424 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    So far you have been unable to clearly and concisely explain what it is that is needed to enter the Kingdom of God. You just cannot do it because what Jesus said to do conflicts with the teachings of a man you have placed on a pedestal.


    What man have I placed on a pedestal ?

    Some brothers who I cut and paste some helpful quotes from, I have placed on a pedestal?
    Because I say "Here's a good teaching that expresses this better" is that placing the source on a pedestal?

    Yes, I refer to pages of messages given by Watchman Nee and Witness Lee.
    I have also quoted plenty of other Christian teachers.

    None of them are Jesus Christ.

    Now. notice that the Apostle Paul told Timothy not to be ashamed of EITHER the testimony of of Jesus Christ OR of himself (Paul), Christ's servant.

    "Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord nor of me His prisoner;

    but suffer evil with the gospel according to the power of God." ( 2 Tim. 1:8)


    Probably some people like yourself were telling Timothy "You should be ashamed of putting Paul up on such a pedastal ! "

    Paul told him this slander was all a part of suffering evil for the sake of the gospel. We should not be ashamed of the testimony of Christ nor of the testimony of those consecrated to serve Christ on our behalf.

    Here again Paul tells his younger learner Timothy to REMEMBER not only the things which Paul taught him but also Paul's manner of life as his example.

    "But you, continue in the things which you have learned and have been assured of, knowing from which ones you have learned them." ( 2 Tim. 3:14)


    So if I remember the good things I have learned from a couple of Christian servants AND the exemplary testimony their lives bore, what's wrong with that? Especially, if I am passing on the help to others, there is nothing of pedestaling here.

    Anyway, don't expect me to stop suggesting that good teaching came from this or that other Christian teacher, including Nee and Lee.
  11. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    26 Feb '17 22:23
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b]But I have been reading your stuff for years and your posts scarcely ever deal with anything to do with a "better way to be a human being".
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For years we have seen you act as a policeman here. You seem to be on a mission to make sure no one believes anything too much. ...[text shortened]... eriting the promises" [/b] and followers of those who are, with patience and a teachable spirit.[/b]
    For all your verbosity, you are still being evasive.
  12. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    27 Feb '17 00:341 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    For all your verbosity, you are still being evasive.
    I have a lot to write. And there seems to have been some recommendation notifications sent to me.

    Apparently, there is nothing here of benefit to you.
  13. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    27 Feb '17 02:30
    Originally posted by sonship
    I have a lot to write. And there seems to have been some recommendation notifications sent to me.

    Apparently, there is nothing here of benefit to you.
    More evasion. It was a yes-no question, sonship. But to be fair, I know it's an 'emperor's new clothes' moment for your ideology.
  14. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    27 Feb '17 02:33
    Originally posted by sonship
    I hear you saying, "Well how can you make all this of some practical use for me who doesn't believe God exists, who doesn't believe Christ is the Son of God, who doesn't believe Christ rose or that Christ is available, and who essentially is on his own and needs no redemption or salvation from God ?"
    "You hear [me] saying..." [INSERT sonship's straw man HERE]. Nice try, albeit a trick you resort to way too often. What I am saying is clearly laid out in what I have written.
  15. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    27 Feb '17 02:39
    Originally posted by sonship
    You seem to be on a mission to make sure no one believes anything too much.
    It's my "mission" is it sonship? To "make sure"? Pout, much? 😕

    I have said time and time again, as far as I am concerned, you and anyone else here can go ahead and believe "anything" if it gives you a sense of purpose and helps you make sense of life.

    If you cannot abide your notions being open to scrutiny, you should be posting on a forum where people already agree with your notions.
Back to Top

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.I Agree