Christ is for Everybody. All People are Saved/Justified by Christ

Trying to keep this simple without much references. This is a controversial topic among Christians, because they tend to promote the doctrine that only those professing faith in Jesus Christ, can be in the Kingdom of God. Hopefully in this thread I can point to some passages particularly from Jesus himself, and the Apostles, that this is not the case.

Some Christian sects expand this by adding in other doctrines as critical requirements:
- one must believe that Jesus is God
- one must believe that Jesus died and resurrected
Extremists Christian sects, like Jehovah Witnesses, Seven Day Adventists, even some Catholics, have gone so far as to say that you must be part of their particular group to be in Gods Kingdom. So it is either you are with them or you burn in hell for eternity.

First, there are some common sense rules for interpreting the bible correctly:
Look at the context... what is the issue at hand
Look at the target audience... for Jews only or everyone or a small group
Who is the speaker... is it Jesus or a prophet
Compare with similar passages.... is there more support

We start with Zahlinzi, who in another thread made this comment .. The entire new testament is filled with "Only through me, jesus, can you be saved" So to Zahlinzi, when you meet a Christian, the very first few lines they say is Accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and you are saved. This is always their first bit of advice, like what you said.

Why then did Jesus start preaching, to the many thousands and thousands of people, who had no idea who He was, neither did He tell them much about himself start off with this:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
(Matthew 5:3-9 KJV)

Jesus said right away what you need to DO to be a child of God, to inherit the Earth, to get mercy, to be righteous, to see God, to be in the Kingdom of God. Nothing about professing faith in Him, about relationship with Him, about believing in death and resurrection. NOTHING!! Why? Because this is what is critical. Professing faith is another matter. Righteousness first. Jesus did the rest. He died and rose so that EVERYONE CAN HAVE LIFE ETERNAL.... AS LONG AS YOU LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY. This is what Christians fail to tell people.

Many of these people who heard Jesus Sermon on the Mount, went away probably never heard from Jesus again, never met Paul, but whose lives would have been changed to live righteously. These people will be in Gods Kingdom.

So to Zahlinzi, can you provide a reference for where Jesus said that only through Him you can be saved. Of course, it is true that only through Jesus everyone can be saved, but Jesus did not go around telling people that, the way Christians do. Notice the same Christians never ever tell anyone to live righteously like Jesus did.

All people who live righteously
- feed the hungry
- clothe the naked
- help the needy
- avoid a life of sin
will enter the Kingdom of God.
Why? Because Jesus died for, and justified ALL PEOPLE, from Adam to the end of time.

Note that Righteous Christians are in a special group, apart from the others because they are the ones who get to rule with Christ at his return. But thats another story.

FOR ALL PEOPLE:

And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (Luke 2:9-11 KJV)

The Arrival of the Son of God, is for ALL PEOPLE.
Not only those professing faith ... like Christians.

Paul explained that the death and resurrection of Christ JUSTIFIED ALL PEOPLE

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (Romans 5:17-18 KJV)

Adams sin condemned all people
Jesus's righteousness justified all people.

This is called the FREE GIFT OF GOD.
FREE -- nothing to do to get it.
It automatically comes upon the world.

@rajk999 said
Trying to keep this simple without much references. This is a controversial topic among Christians, because they tend to promote the doctrine that only those professing faith in Jesus Christ, can be in the Kingdom of God. Hopefully in this thread I can point to some passages particularly from Jesus himself, and the Apostles, that this is not the case.

Some Christian ...[text shortened]... thers because they are the ones who get to rule with Christ at his return. But thats another story.

https://www.biblelyfe.com/blog/57-bible-verses-on-salvation#:~:text=Romans%2010%3A9%2D10,one%20confesses%20and%20is%20saved.

Romans 10:9-10
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Believe what you want but nowhere in the bible does it say that atheists and people of other faiths will enter heaven. It specifically says in some places Jesus is a requirement. It says in other places some of the other things that are needed.

The bible is not a well thought out book

@rajk999 said
Trying to keep this simple without much references. This is a controversial topic among Christians, because they tend to promote the doctrine that only those professing faith in Jesus Christ, can be in the Kingdom of God. Hopefully in this thread I can point to some passages particularly from Jesus himself, and the Apostles, that this is not the case.

Some Christian ...[text shortened]... thers because they are the ones who get to rule with Christ at his return. But thats another story.

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+belief+in+jesus+necessary+for+salvation&oq=is+belief+in+jesus+ne&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33i10i160l2j33i22i29i30l7.6303j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


let me know just how many links say "atheists can go to heaven", i got bored after the first like 6 links supporting my stance.

@zahlanzi said
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+belief+in+jesus+necessary+for+salvation&oq=is+belief+in+jesus+ne&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33i10i160l2j33i22i29i30l7.6303j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


let me know just how many links say "atheists can go to heaven", i got bored after the first like 6 links supporting my stance.

Google is not an authority. Google just regurgitates what people say. So if the majority of the Chritsian community believe one thing then that is all Google will repeat.

@rajk999 said
Google is not an authority. Google just regurgitates what people say. So if the majority of the Chritsian community believe one thing then that is all Google will repeat.

Yeah, that's how everything works.

If there is an authority, it definitely is not you, it's the majority of a given community.



I thought you might not be aware of other opinions but it seems you are and you still believe you, the 1%, understand the bible better than others

Well, there is a simple solution to that, start your own religion.

@zahlanzi said
https://www.biblelyfe.com/blog/57-bible-verses-on-salvation#:~:text=Romans%2010%3A9%2D10,one%20confesses%20and%20is%20saved.

Romans 10:9-10
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is save ...[text shortened]... other places some of the other things that are needed.

The bible is not a well thought out book

Instead of going all over the place, Im asking you to look at the most important things first .. what Jesus said.

Lets say it again.
- Jesus was born and the angels said something which I quoted
- Jesus knew exactly why he came
- Jesus preached to thousands of people
- Jesus preached that people should be righteous and love their neighbour.

What did Jesus say about professing belief in him or believing in death and resurrection?

Lets start there. Forget that the bible is not well thought out. The bible contains a history or a timeline of events from the birth of Christ to the departure of Christ. By the doctrine of Christians today, all people before Paul, will be condemned becuase none of them professed faith in Christ.

@zahlanzi said
Yeah, that's how everything works.

If there is an authority, it definitely is not you, it's the majority of a given community.



I thought you might not be aware of other opinions but it seems you are and you still believe you, the 1%, understand the bible better than others

Well, there is a simple solution to that, start your own religion.

Jesus is the authority.

Im aware of what most of the worlds' religions believe. Been doing this for about 50 years.

@rajk999 said
Jesus is the authority.

Im aware of what most of the worlds' religions believe. Been doing this for about 50 years.

Jesus is not around. All you have is what his religion says it's true. What his religion says he said. What his religion said should be a part of that all important book.

"Been doing this for about 50 years."
So? You want a cookie? Length of being wrong at something is also not authority

@rajk999 said
Instead of going all over the place, Im asking you to look at the most important things first .. what Jesus said.

Lets say it again.
- Jesus was born and the angels said something which I quoted
- Jesus knew exactly why he came
- Jesus preached to thousands of people
- Jesus preached that people should be righteous and love their neighbour.

What did Jesus say about ...[text shortened]... ans today, all people before Paul, will be condemned becuase none of them professed faith in Christ.

you want direct quotes now? So anything in the bible that isn't a direct quote from jesus is not in fact true and we should ignore?

"What did Jesus say about professing belief in him or believing in death and resurrection? "
John 14:6, ESV Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

" Forget that the bible is not well thought out."
You can't say that 2 sentences after asking me "What did Jesus say". How should I know except by looking at the bible.

Pleased this is “a thread without much references” 😂

@zahlanzi said
Jesus is not around. All you have is what his religion says it's true. What his religion says he said. What his religion said should be a part of that all important book.

"Been doing this for about 50 years."
So? You want a cookie? Length of being wrong at something is also not authority

We have some recorded words of Jesus.
This is what is critical, because Jesus was clear about what was important.

@divegeester said
Pleased this is “a thread without much references” 😂

Well compared to posters in the past like sonship.

@zahlanzi said
you want direct quotes now? So anything in the bible that isn't a direct quote from jesus is not in fact true and we should ignore?

"What did Jesus say about professing belief in him or believing in death and resurrection? "
John 14:6, ESV Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

" Forget that the bib ...[text shortened]... 2 sentences after asking me "What did Jesus say". How should I know except by looking at the bible.

If Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life then that means:

Jesus the path through which one can get eternal life
Jesus's teachings are the truth
Jesus is the life one must lead/live to get into the Kingdom of God.

Jesus did not go around telling people:
- He is God
- You must believe in his death and resurrection
- You must profess faith.

The fact that someone shows charitable love to those around and living righteously shows that they are Christlike. That is enough. nothing more is required.