@rajk999 saidYou need to keep it simple without reference’s because you are not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, you are presenting another gospel.
Trying to keep this simple without much references. This is a controversial topic among Christians, because they tend to promote the doctrine that only those professing faith in Jesus Christ, can be in the Kingdom of God. Hopefully in this thread I can point to some passages particularly from Jesus himself, and the Apostles, that this is not the case.
Some Christian ...[text shortened]... thers because they are the ones who get to rule with Christ at his return. But thats another story.
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@rajk999 saidglad i have you to tell me what the correct interpretation of a text is.
If Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life then that means:
Jesus the path through which one can get eternal life
Jesus's teachings are the truth
Jesus is the life one must lead/live to get into the Kingdom of God.
Jesus did not go around telling people:
- He is God
- You must believe in his death and resurrection
- You must profess faith.
The fact that ...[text shortened]... und and living righteously shows that they are Christlike. That is enough. nothing more is required.
"Jesus's teachings are the truth"
He wasn't the first nor the last to come up with those teachings. John Lennon also figured out that all you need is love.
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@zahlanzi saidIf a man records two events, then they are equally reliable. One is about Christ and the other Paul lets say. But the people speaking have different levels of authority. Jesus speaking is greater than Paul speaking. So Jesus comes first.
"We have some recorded words of Jesus."
Recorded where? In the bible? Written by the same people who wrote those quotes i mentioned.
@rajk999 saidGod’s truth is not dependent on who speaks it according to the authority that person has. Even Jesus said the Father was the source of His teaching, and Jesus spoke about sending the Holy Spirit so God is still in charge of His truth.
If a man records two events, then they are equally reliable. One is about Christ and the other Paul lets say. But the people speaking have different levels of authority. Jesus speaking is greater than Paul speaking. So Jesus comes first.
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@rajk999 saidI'm thinking you protest WAY too much here.
Trying to keep this simple without much references. This is a controversial topic among Christians, because they tend to promote the doctrine that only those professing faith in Jesus Christ, can be in the Kingdom of God. Hopefully in this thread I can point to some passages particularly from Jesus himself, and the Apostles, that this is not the case.
Some Christian ...[text shortened]... thers because they are the ones who get to rule with Christ at his return. But thats another story.
At least we're finally seeing the "Gospel of Rajk".
No, thanks.
@kellyjay saidBut the source of your truth is what you’ve been taught by your various church leaders over the years.
God’s truth is not dependent on who speaks it according to the authority that person has. Even Jesus said the Father was the source of His teaching, and Jesus spoke about sending the Holy Spirit so God is still in charge of His truth.
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@rajk999 saidSo to Zahlinzi, can you provide a reference for where Jesus said that only through Him you can be saved.
Trying to keep this simple without much references. This is a controversial topic among Christians, because they tend to promote the doctrine that only those professing faith in Jesus Christ, can be in the Kingdom of God. Hopefully in this thread I can point to some passages particularly from Jesus himself, and the Apostles, that this is not the case.
Some Christian ...[text shortened]... thers because they are the ones who get to rule with Christ at his return. But thats another story.
I'm not Zahlinzi, but here is my 2 cents worth: Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6) He did NOT say. I am the "only" way and the truth and the life." There are people today and in years past who never heard of Jesus, and many who lived long before Jesus. How will God deal with those folks? Frankly, I have no idea.
- Pretty interesting subject.
@mchill saidThe doctrine of the likes of KellyJay, sonship and Josephw will assert that the same Jesus will be in hell overseeing the eternal burning alive (ref: Revelation 14) of those who have died without knowing the same Jesus.
There are people today and in years past who never heard of Jesus, and many who lived long before Jesus. How will God deal with those folks?
- Pretty interesting subject.
When questioned in the past the notion of these poor unfortunates as being “without excuse” is floated, based on references to the gospel being written in the heavens or in nature and such like.
@mchill saidI did not say He was "a" way, He said He was the way, Jesus left no room for doubt when He said that no one would come to the Father but through Him, He was very clear. Moreover, when He said that those that did not believe in Him were condemned already, He was also very clear.
So to Zahlinzi, can you provide a reference for where Jesus said that only through Him you can be saved.
I'm not Zahlinzi, but here is my 2 cents worth: Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6) He did NOT say. I am the "only" way and the truth and the life." There are people today and in years past who never heard of Jesus, and many who lived lon ...[text shortened]... esus. How will God deal with those folks? Frankly, I have no idea.
- Pretty interesting subject.
I heard someone say yesterday, that we talk about how He came into the world fulfilling prophecy while doing it, that we should realize no other person's life was foretold before He was born. Jesus among all others is quite a part of who He was and what He did, no other religion has the evidence pointing towards anyone else as there is towards Jesus.
@mchill saidMchill, see if you can address this point fairly and concisely without resorting to your church doctrine. I made a few points in the opening post about how one should go about interpreting the bible and one of these is to see who is being addressed.
So to Zahlinzi, can you provide a reference for where Jesus said that only through Him you can be saved.
I'm not Zahlinzi, but here is my 2 cents worth: Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life." (John 14:6) He did NOT say. I am the "only" way and the truth and the life." There are people today and in years past who never heard of Jesus, and many who lived lon ...[text shortened]... esus. How will God deal with those folks? Frankly, I have no idea.
- Pretty interesting subject.
While Jesus was preaching to many thousands and thousands who were following Him, eg in the Sermon on the Mount, or when he fed the five thousand with fish etc etc, there is no record of this statement being made. So it is fair to conclude that this piece of information is not important. Clearly, otherwise Jesus would have said it just like how you or KJ or any Christian says it so clearly.
In the passage where Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life, He was addressing ONE MAN... ONE !!!
Yes Jesus is the way, but that piece of information is not critical for eternal life. What is critical is the teachings of Jesus to the crowds who followed Him.
@rajk999 saidYes Jesus is the way, but that piece of information is not critical for eternal life. What is critical is the teachings of Jesus to the crowds who followed Him.
Mchill, see if you can address this point fairly and concisely without resorting to your church doctrine. I made a few points in the opening post about how one should go about interpreting the bible and one of these is to see who is being addressed.
While Jesus was preaching to many thousands and thousands who were following Him, eg in the Sermon on the Mount, or when h ...[text shortened]... tical for eternal life. What is critical is the teachings of Jesus to the crowds who followed Him.
You're getting into some of finer points of scripture that I don't have an answers for. I must plead ignorance on this one.