@rajk999 saidDeceiver, Jesus not only said He is the way, but also no one comes to the Father but by Him. You twist the words of Jesus, you do this because of your personal beliefs. The Scriptures hold nothing over you and you are accountable to anyone else. You are the only authority you recognize, that suits you since you can never be shown your wrong.
Mchill, see if you can address this point fairly and concisely without resorting to your church doctrine. I made a few points in the opening post about how one should go about interpreting the bible and one of these is to see who is being addressed.
While Jesus was preaching to many thousands and thousands who were following Him, eg in the Sermon on the Mount, or when h ...[text shortened]... tical for eternal life. What is critical is the teachings of Jesus to the crowds who followed Him.
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@mchill saidYou have an answer. The answer is that Jesus did not preach that to the thousands who listened to him. That statement was made to one man, Thomas and maybe the rest of the disciples were there as well.
Yes Jesus is the way, but that piece of information is not critical for eternal life. What is critical is the teachings of Jesus to the crowds who followed Him.
You're getting into some of finer points of scripture that I don't have an answers for. I must plead ignorance on this one.
@kellyjay saidJesus made that statement he that believeth not is condemned already .. to ONE MAN ... Nicodemus. Jesus was addressing Nicodemus. When Jesus addressed the many thousands he told them nothing of the sort. These people did not know of any Jesus Christ or any Son of God, neither did Jesus say to believe in him. Nobody believed that he was Christ and even the disciples did not fully believe either at that point in time.
Moreover, when He said that those that did not believe in Him were condemned already, He was also very clear.
As usual you keep missing the point and you are obviously getting more and more worried that your doctrine is nonsense, because your language is abusive.
@mchill saidI cant believe you are saying you have no idea? Did not the bible say that the old old patriarchs [prior to Christ] will be in the Kingdom of God. Does your church preach that these people will be cast into hell and tormented?
There are people today and in years past who never heard of Jesus, and many who lived long before Jesus. How will God deal with those folks? Frankly, I have no idea.
- Pretty interesting subject.
I also quoted several references that says Jesus died for all people and all people are justified, in the sense that the curse of the sin of Adam was removed. This Paul referred to as the Free Gift, aka the Grace of God. The angel said that birth of Christ was glad tidings for all people. Clearly you are confused as to what 'all people' means.... ALL means from Adam to the end of the world.
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@rajk999 saidYou are saying only Nicodemus out of the whole human race, that just him, and only him is to be condemned if he didn’t believe?
Jesus made that statement he that believeth not is condemned already .. to ONE MAN ... Nicodemus. Jesus was addressing Nicodemus. When Jesus addressed the many thousands he told them nothing of the sort. These people did not know of any Jesus Christ or any Son of God, neither did Jesus say to believe in him. Nobody believed that he was Christ and even the disci ...[text shortened]... usly getting more and more worried that your doctrine is nonsense, because your language is abusive.
They were speaking of spiritual truths to each other, that applies to everyone.
You don’t treat other scripture the same way, only those listening to the sermon on the mount was the message He delivered only applicable to just them, are you suggesting nothing Jesus had to say apply to today because everyone He talked to has died?
What hoops you are willing to make to avoid a clear reading of the word!
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@kellyjay saidHe is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Deceiver, Jesus not only said He is the way, but also no one comes to the Father but by Him. You twist the words of Jesus, you do this because of your personal beliefs. The Scriptures hold nothing over you and you are accountable to anyone else. You are the only authority you recognize, that suits you since you can never be shown your wrong.
1 John 2:2
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@kellyjay saidI know this is very hard for you ... so I will take the trouble to repeat myself, although I doubt it will do you any good. Im really repeating it for other Christians, and non Christians, who will certain find this information useful
You are saying only Nicodemus out of the whole human race, that just him, and only him is to be condemned if he didn’t believe?
They were speaking of spiritual truths to each other, that applies to everyone.
You don’t treat other scripture the same way, only those listening to the sermon on the mount was the message He delivered only applicable to just them, are you ...[text shortened]... e He talked to has died?
What hoops you are willing to make to avoid a clear reading of the word!
Everything Jesus said is important, but some of these things, not all, are critical for eternal life. Not all that Jesus said is critical for eternal life, in other words failure to know, understand, believe certain things will not mean the person will be cast out.
The critical things were preached and repeated several times, to the thousands. The writers of the gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all said the very same critical things over and over. When a doctrine is not critical, it can appear once and often Jesus speaking to ONE man or just the disciples privately, or to the Pharisees privately.
Further proof that something is critical can also be found in the judgment day scenario in Matt 25.... you know what that is.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYes, yet another one. Its all over the teachings of Paul, but Christians will not accept it, because they do not want non-Christians to be in the Kingdom of God.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYes He is, and to neglect that great salvation is not much different than saying I don’t care.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2
@kellyjay saidIm actually starting to feel sorry for you KJ.
Deceiver, what is the answer to the question what must I do to be saved according to scripture when that gets asked?
Jesus said these will enter the Kingdom of God:
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
(Matthew 5:3-9 KJV)
Plus on judgment day with all people will stand before him, the following get eternal life:
- those who feed the hungry
- those who helped the needy
- those who clothed the naked
- etc.
Those who called Lord Lord, profess faith, and did not do good works and keep the commandments, are going to be cast out.
Paul and the Apostles said the same things. Plus Paul explained the reasons for the death of Christ, something Jesus never did. He said that all people are justified by the death of Christ. It is the FREE GIFT that God gave to mankind. Let me know if you rather I quote Paul
@rajk999 saidYou have an answer. The answer is that Jesus did not preach that to the thousands who listened to him.
You have an answer. The answer is that Jesus did not preach that to the thousands who listened to him. That statement was made to one man, Thomas and maybe the rest of the disciples were there as well.
Well - If you have the answer, then you scarcely need to ask me.
@mchill saidThen you're in company with Rajk.
Yes Jesus is the way, but that piece of information is not critical for eternal life. What is critical is the teachings of Jesus to the crowds who followed Him.
You're getting into some of finer points of scripture that I don't have an answers for. I must plead ignorance on this one.
He just doesn't admit it.