Christians...how do you know that

Originally posted by David C
You've chosen the right religion? Given the evidence that the xtian bible has been co-opted, re-written and based on earlier religious texts and promulgated by men seeking to hegemonize power throughout its' infancy...what happens if, on that day, you find out that you've been worshipping the wrong god and must reject "Jesus" in order to fulfill your entry into Heaven? Would you do it?

no

out of spite, and cuz i'd be too pissed to admit i was wrong.



mike

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I thought the answer would be rather obvious - no person (Christian or otherwise) on this forum would answer in the negative.

You'd think so, huh?

I find the question very pertinent though given the number of occasions on this site when xtian fundamentalists have assured me that I would do exactly that if God offered me such a generous choice.

Originally posted by David C
You've chosen the right religion? Given the evidence that the xtian bible has been co-opted, re-written and based on earlier religious texts and promulgated by men seeking to hegemonize power throughout its' infancy...what happens if, on that day, you find out that you've been worshipping the wrong god and must reject "Jesus" in order to fulfill your entry into Heaven? Would you do it?

If there has been any Change it has been .002% as of some other religion Bibles have changed for 5 to 10%

Originally posted by David C
You've chosen the right religion? Given the evidence that the xtian bible has been co-opted, re-written and based on earlier religious texts and promulgated by men seeking to hegemonize power throughout its' infancy...what happens if, on ...[text shortened]... sus" in order to fulfill your entry into Heaven? Would you do it?

That's a beauty of question.....

Not right off the bat I wouldn't.....the question for me has an inherent flaw. I percieve Jesus as a good and righteous being, he is both God and not god. If this "new" God were a good I could worship...I think it would not ask me or anyone to reject goodness....

I think perhaps that I am not the sort of Christian to which you have addressed this question. I believe that all faiths in some measure are worshiping the true "God" and that all faith suffer from corruption by powerseekers. That each individual person comes to a understanding of and relationship to God that is a unique and holy (and holey). I thnk that "God" is a concept greater than any one faith or philosophy is capable of conceiving. Somewhere in the new testament is a a statement by Jesus that in his father's house there are many rooms.....

I once had the honor of attending a gheadra (not sure about the spelling) which is a kind of dance and prayer. I hesitated to join because I wished to be respectful of other's faith and not corrupt or harm their practice. But, I was invited quite insistently. The prayer has drums and a call response pattern which is hypnotic and powerful. The women sat in a circle while the men stood behind us...to protect us and our souls, I was told. The drumming began, the women around me began a patterned clapping, I joined. A woman called out, and the women repsonded, speaking in arabic. I had no clue until a woman next to me translated. The call was, "Allah is coming." and the response was, "Let him come." We began in the late afternoon and ended in the dark. At some point the chanting changed, no one told me the words and gradually all the women were dancing and the men took over the chanting and clapping. This practice was not of my tradition yet it was sacred and "God" was present. We slipped past time into joy. I fully expect to dance and pray like that in heaven......

The problem with religion is the people wish to put God in a box and only bring him out for a moment when the correct tune is played. When God pops out in a way that frightens or confuses us, we put him back in very fast.....and even the non-believers want to get that God under control....quick, before something sacred happens.

Just my opinion, respectfully....

Originally posted by David C
You've chosen the right religion? Given the evidence that the xtian bible has been co-opted, re-written and based on earlier religious texts and promulgated by men seeking to hegemonize power throughout its' infancy...what happens if, on that day, you find out that you've been worshipping the wrong god and must reject "Jesus" in order to fulfill your entry into Heaven? Would you do it?

I know that im wasting my time posting with all the critics here, But Im Bored, so here goes

As for me, I know 100% that I got the right religion, I can feel it iinside me, I know to most of you this is all garbish, as you probaly wont believe me,

All religions have their own book, which they also claim to be true, but each one excludes the other - the book of Mormon, is contrary to what the Q'uran (Islam) teaches as truth, and the truth claims in the bible are contrary to them, and so on... Because of this, they cannot be all true, either one is truth and the other worldwide belief systems are false, including atheism, or every book is false, and atheism is left, the bible can be shown to be trust worthy though, unlike the other religious books the Bible can be shown to be historical, through archaeology, it names, people, events, which can be confirmed, and did you know the bible is backed by over 28,000 manuscripts - Latin, which means hand-written -another thing which speaks to the truth of the bible, is its fulfilled prophecy! No other book of any world religion offers, even close to the verifiable evidence, that the bible does!

Originally posted by flyUnity
I know that im wasting my time posting with all the critics here, But Im Bored, so here goes

As for me, I know 100% that I got the right religion, I can feel it iinside me, I know to most of you this is all garbish, as you probaly wont ...[text shortened]... ers, even close to the verifiable evidence, that the bible does!

BS. We've went through many of the so-called "prophecies" and they are all either sooooooo vague as to be meaningless or just plain wrong. Who knows if all religions are true or one is or none are; certainly not human beings. How do Latin copies of copies of copies "prove" anything of the truth of the Bible? And plenty of ancient texts accord with archaeology and have claims of Gods doing magical things; the OT is not unique in any way. In short, like many "Christians" on this site, you are very ignorant of ancient history and writings and believe in things that are plainly not so about the Bible. And you're 100% sure? I got a bridge to sell ya; Jesus says send a check today!

Originally posted by flyUnity
I know that im wasting my time posting with all the critics here, But Im Bored, so here goes

As for me, I know 100% that I got the right religion, I can feel it iinside me, I know to most of you this is all garbish, as you probaly wont believe me,

All religions have their own book, which they also claim to be true, but each one excludes the other - t ...[text shortened]... book of any world religion offers, even close to the verifiable evidence, that the bible does!

See? Yet another person who will not answer the question. Unbelievable!

FU, almost everybody who believes their religion "feels it." You say that they are wrong, perhaps even deceived; however, you could be the one deceived by say, Loki. As for all your support for the Bible (most of which sounds very unlikely), wouldn't a super intelligent, super powerful trickster god be able to make everything appear convincing?

Just saying, you can't rule it out. So if you find out when you die that you are wrong (If! it's hypothetical), would you recant Jesus and worship the hypothetical true god or would you suffer eternal torture instead?

Originally posted by telerion
See? Yet another person who will not answer the question. Unbelievable!

FU, almost everybody who believes their religion "feels it." You say that they are wrong, perhaps even deceived; however, you could be the one deceived by say, Loki. As for all your support for the Bible (most of which sounds very unlikely), wouldn't a super intelligent, super ...[text shortened]... recant Jesus and worship the hypothetical true god or would you suffer eternal torture instead?

Im not sure if Im correct, but I believe that muslims, mormans, cathalics, say that christians will get to heaven, so if I am wrong, (And Im not 🙂 ) and any other is right, I still go to heaven, ok lets say there is no God, then nothing happens, now, what if any of them is right, and atheism is wrong, your in trouble, Im in a win-win situation

Originally posted by no1marauder
BS. We've went through many of the so-called "prophecies" and they are all either sooooooo vague as to be meaningless or just plain wrong. Who knows if all religions are true or one is or none are; certainly not human beings. How do Latin copies of copies of copies "prove" anything of the truth of the Bible? And plenty of ancient texts acc ...[text shortened]... bout the Bible. And you're 100% sure? I got a bridge to sell ya; Jesus says send a check today!

you are right when you say Im ignorant, as I am, BTW Im 100% sure, Im not saying I know all doctrines or I may be wacky in what I believe, and I may be incorrect when I give my opionion, but I am convinced there is a God, as for others like muslims and morman etc, though they might feel it just like I do, Im not gonna judge them that they are right or wrong, as Im not gonna be the judge, and I dont fully understand everything

Originally posted by flyUnity
Im not sure if Im correct, but I believe that muslims, mormans, cathalics, say that christians will get to heaven, so if I am wrong, (And Im not 🙂 ) and any other is right, I still go to heaven, ok lets say there is no God, then nothing happens, now, what if any of them is right, and atheism is wrong, your in trouble, Im in a win-win situation

I am pleased that unlike some of your brethren you are willing to consider hypothetical questions; however, the question was not "if you discover that there are no gods . . .?" The question has always been "if you discover upon your death that a different god than the one you worship is real and in command, would you renounce Jesus in order to get into heaven and avoid eternal suffering?"

Lu's Ham has responded, "Yes." All other xtians have yet to give a straight answer.

Originally posted by flyUnity
Im not sure if Im correct, but I believe that muslims, mormans, cathalics, say that christians will get to heaven, so if I am wrong, (And Im not 🙂 ) and any other is right, I still go to heaven, ok lets say there is no God, then nothing happens, now, what if any of them is right, and atheism is wrong, your in trouble, Im in a win-win situation

This is Pascal's Wager. It is a poor argument for theistic belief. Even if there is no God or other gods, something may still happen after death. The supernatural is completely unverifiable (as it is likely only a figment of our imaginations) and so any logically possible statement can be applied to it. Therefore it may be the case that there is not even one god and yet still something happens after death.

It also fails because you are assuming that if there is a god, it must be the xtian god, or at least some other god who punishes non-believers. It may be that if there is a god, it is neutral towards atheists, but very touchy about worship of false gods. It might say, "I didn't make things clear enough for people to discover me, but how could they be so foolish to worship (insert god here)?" In this case, given that no one knows of this god, you are better off being an atheist than any known type of theist.

Finally, Pascal's Wager fails because it sets up whatever god there is (in the case that there is one) as a sucker. It's an argument for fire insurance. If I claim to believe then I may have an increased chance of reward; but don't you think a being that can create the universe ex nihilo will catch onto the ulterior motives for claiming belief? If this god will still punish those who only claim belief to play odds, then one is not better off by claiming theism.

Originally posted by telerion
Why have all the xtians so far been unable to answer a purely hypothetical question?

There was a question? Oh, I see it. It came after all the BS, and stupid assertions. I guess didn't think it was a serious question.

OK. What would I do if I found out I'd been wrong all along.... well golly gee Beaver, I dunno.

I also don't know what I'd do if my PC tuned into jello. How can anyone one know what they do in a situation they've never been in and can hardly imagine what it will be like. Maybe I'll think, "bummer dude". Maybe I'll ask for a do-over. Who knows?

The question is so silly, I did not consider answering it. I don't think there's anything significant about that. What would you do if you found out your real mother was the Queen of England and she wanted you to vist to play marbles every Tuesday wearing a chicken suit?

Originally posted by telerion
I am pleased that unlike some of your brethren you are willing to consider hypothetical questions; however, the question was not "if you discover that there are no gods . . .?" The question has always been "if you discover upon your death that a different god than the one you worship is real and in command, would you renounce Jesus in order to get into ...[text shortened]... ?"

Lu's Ham has responded, "Yes." All other xtians have yet to give a straight answer.

Reminds me of those mind game questions like: what would you do if a gunman has your kids and says he will let one live and the others have to die - your choice which one to save. Or those moronic "life boat" questions that are supposed to demonstrate that morality is relative - who ya' going to dump overs, the guy in the wheel chair, or the little old lady, or the infant.

Originally posted by Coletti
Reminds me of those mind game questions like: what would you do if a gunman has your kids and says he will let one live and the others have to die - your choice which one to save. Or those moronic "life boat" questions that are supposed to demonstrate that morality is relative - who ya' going to dump overs, the guy in the wheel chair, or the little old lady, or the infant.

oh, oh, I know, I know...the little old lady!! More social security monies for me!

Do you have any more? 😉

TheSkipper

Originally posted by Coletti
Reminds me of those mind game questions like: what would you do if a gunman has your kids and says he will let one live and the others have to die - your choice which one to save. Or those moronic "life boat" questions that are supposed ...[text shortened]... e guy in the wheel chair, or the little old lady, or the infant.

It's hardly so extreme. In fact, if an atheist, for whom gods are a zanny superstition, can answer it, I don't see why a xtian should have a aneurysm over it. Their actual belief is so close to the hypothetical that it should not strike them as ridiculous, but rather as all too familiar.

It seems easy to me. If you discover that Jesus isn't what you thought he was and you are faced with the choice to accept the existence of a god that you are pretty certain exists or go to eternal suffering, you should accept that the god exists and recant your former beliefs.

No big deal. The reasons that the question is interesting in my opinion are two-fold, and I've already stated them:

1) The degree to which some xtians will go to avoid considering the seemingly harmless question suggests a great deal about the openess of their mind to critical analysis of their beliefs.

2) It places an all too familiar dilemma back in the xtian's court. While they often make claims that I, an atheist, would reject god even after knowing that he exists, a devastating character weakness in their view to be sure, they have a very hard time when hypothetically placed in the same circumstance. Meanwhile, I declare without hesitation or linguistic legerdemain that I would acknowledge my error if I discovered after death that I am wrong.

(I know it's too late after I die, dj2, so save it!)