Originally posted by telerion
It's hardly so extreme. In fact, if an atheist, for whom gods are a zanny superstition, can answer it, I don't see why a xtian should have a aneurysm over it.

a) It's a pointless question
b) Even an athiest does not know what they would do in that situation. It's only a guess.

Originally posted by telerion
1) The degree to which some xtians will go to avoid considering the seemingly harmless question suggests a great deal about the openess of their mind to critical analysis of their beliefs.

as true as true can be.

Originally posted by Coletti
a) It's a pointless question
b) Even an athiest does not know what they would do in that situation. It's only a guess.

a) I gave two reasons why it is not a pointless question. In fact, I have another reason why it is important. If you accept that some part of us is immortal, that is we have a spirit, and if you accept that your spirit may be judged after death and sent to either a heaven or hell (most xtians do accept these), and if you have chosen Jesus Christ, then you should also consider "What if I am wrong?" You put actual stock in your eternal future and so you should consider what you will do with it.

In the end, the question is no less pointless than "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?"

b) Given the hypothetical choice, I know what I would hypothetically do. It's very common to for reasonable people to think in this framework. For example, if I went to the bank today and discovered that all my money had been taken, then I would call my wife to see if she withdrew money. If she said, "No," then I would call the bank and speak with a customer service representative.
A whole string of if's could be added on to this, and I could answer quite a few of them.

Nevertheless, let me make the question even less stressful for you.

Question:

"Is refusing to recant that Jesus is the true god worth suffering for eternity even after you discover that a different god is the true god?"

Originally posted by no1marauder
BS. We've went through many of the so-called "prophecies" and they are all either sooooooo vague as to be meaningless or just plain wrong. Who knows if all religions are true or one is or none are; certainly not human beings. How do Latin copies of copies of copies "prove" anything of the truth of the Bible? And plenty of ancient texts acc ...[text shortened]... bout the Bible. And you're 100% sure? I got a bridge to sell ya; Jesus says send a check today!

We've went through many of the so-called "prophecies" and they are all either sooooooo vague as to be meaningless or just plain wrong.

I suggest you read the Book WHY I BELIEVE, by Dr. James Kennedy. He will take you through a couple of prophecies. Once you've read his book and you have some integrity, you will swallow your words and open a new thread to appologise for these unaccurate words that you have written.

Originally posted by telerion
This is Pascal's Wager. It is a poor argument for theistic belief. Even if there is no God or other gods, something may still happen after death. The supernatural is completely unverifiable (as it is likely only a figment of our imaginations) and so any logically possible statement can be applied to it. Therefore it may be the case that there is not ev ...[text shortened]... punish those who only claim belief to play odds, then one is not better off by claiming theism.

I was answering your question, about "What if".

I am not playing odds,

Originally posted by telerion
I am pleased that unlike some of your brethren you are willing to consider hypothetical questions; however, the question was not "if you discover that there are no gods . . .?" The question has always been "if you discover upon your death that a different god than the one you worship is real and in command, would you renounce Jesus in order to get into ...[text shortened]... ?"

Lu's Ham has responded, "Yes." All other xtians have yet to give a straight answer.

As Col said, your question is pretty dum, If I died, and I found out Jesus wasnt the Messiah, and I had to recant him in order to get to heaven, I would, anyone would,

but your question is silly, Lets say you have a rock in your hand, and you tell a friend "This is a rock" , your friend says, "If there wasnt a rock in your hand, would you retract your statement about a rock being in your hand?"

I dont really see your point

Originally posted by David C
You've chosen the right religion? Given the evidence that the xtian bible has been co-opted, re-written and based on earlier religious texts and promulgated by men seeking to hegemonize power throughout its' infancy...what happens if, on that day, you find out that you've been worshipping the wrong god and must reject "Jesus" in order to fulfill your entry into Heaven? Would you do it?

great two-part question.

concerning the first part, not a single answer thus far has been anything close to compelling. it's because it's a bastardly hard question and none of the christians seem willing to admit that. the futile attempts carried out so far to make the answer rigorous are comical. i would be more impressed to just hear a christian say that they know it's the correct religion simply because they strongly believe it to be. after all, it's simply a matter of faith -- no reason to pretend it's more than that.

concerning the second part, few christians will give a straight answer, but even my goldfish could answer for them. of course they would reject jesus to save their hides. any sane person would based solely on the premise of self interest. the dirty, heathen atheists and agnostics out there don't hold any patents on egoism. the proof of this is manifest in the absurdities christians are willing to rationalize in order to entertain notions of future self-preservation.

many on this thread have said the second question is absurd. why start discriminating now?

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]We've went through many of the so-called "prophecies" and they are all either sooooooo vague as to be meaningless or just plain wrong.

I suggest you read the Book WHY I BELIEVE, by Dr. James Kennedy. He will take you through a couple of prophecies. Once you've read his book and you have some integrity, you will swallow your words and open a new thread to appologise for these unaccurate words that you have written.[/b]

Sorry. I'm not throwing down my hard earned shekels to read some pap from a religious nut. Why should I when I can get it from you for free? We went through a whole bunch of these "prophecies" in another thread and they don't mean jack as they are either dead wrong or so vague as to be worthless. This is the third thread you've pushed this book in; did you Dad write it or something?

Originally posted by flyUnity
As Col said, your question is pretty dum, If I died, and I found out Jesus wasnt the Messiah, and I had to recant him in order to get to heaven, I would, anyone would,

but your question is silly, Lets say you have a rock in your hand, and you tell a friend "This is a rock" , your friend says, "If there wasnt a rock in your hand, would you retract your statement about a rock being in your hand?"

I dont really see your point

It is pretty obvious isn't it?

Funny that Col still will not say the very easy answer as you have. Dj2 has not either. That is what makes the question interesting. It's easy. It's obvious. Yet some people are too terrified of divine "lightning bolts" to simply say, "Yes, of course, I would recant."

Your responses demonstrate that you are both willfuly ignoring my subsequent posts which defend the efficacy of the question. How often have I been told (not asked) that I would reject your god even if I met him face to face, so to speak? The question reveals who really is inflexible and overconfident. It is not I.

Originally posted by LemonJello
great two-part question.

concerning the first part, not a single answer thus far has been anything close to compelling. it's because it's a bastardly hard question and none of the christians seem willing to admit that. the futile attempts carried out so far to make the answer rigorous are comical. i would be more impressed to just hear a christian ...[text shortened]...

many on this thread have said the second question is absurd. why start discriminating now?

Better put than my attempt above.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Sorry. I'm not throwing down my hard earned shekels to read some pap from a religious nut. Why should I when I can get it from you for free? We went through a whole bunch of these "prophecies" in another thread and they don't mean jack as they are either dead wrong or so vague as to be worthless. This is the third thread you've pushed this book in; did you Dad write it or something?

He does a better job at expounding on the prophecies than I can do. But if you want to remain an ig it's fine with me.

Originally posted by dj2becker
He does a better job at expounding on the prophecies than I can do. But if you want to remain an ig it's fine with me.

When I was in seminary, a student asked my theology professor what he thought of James Kennedy. He said that he had never heard of him, but would do some research and come back and report. He came back a few days later and this was his report. "I did some research on James Kennedy and I realized why I had never heard of his theology. He has none."

James Kennedy is simply a politician in a fancy robe hold up in a church. He can't get through the day without talking about the "assault on America's values by the godless liberal elite who seek to destroy every vestige of God."

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]We've went through many of the so-called "prophecies" and they are all either sooooooo vague as to be meaningless or just plain wrong.

I suggest you read the Book WHY I BELIEVE, by Dr. James Kennedy. He will take you through a couple of prophecies. Once you've read his book and you have some integrity, you will swallow your words and open a new thread to appologise for these unaccurate words that you have written.[/b]

'Dr.' Jamie Kennedy? I've got some bad news for you. He's not a doctor.

http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Special/0,11116,114118%7C%7C,00.html

You've been X'd!

Originally posted by telerion
That's why I seperated off the question I ask in my post. Forget the first part.

If you meet a different god on judgement day, will you accept that you were wrong and enter heaven or will you be stubborn and suffer eternal torture?

If we each meet a different God than who we were serving, it will not
be up to us what happens next, but it will be up to the real God. Just
as it will be with everyone, even those that do not serve any God.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If we each meet a different God than who we were serving, it will not
be up to us what happens next, but it will be up to the real God. Just
as it will be with everyone, even those that do not serve any God.
Kelly

That's definitely true. The question had the idea (it was explicit in an earlier form) that you have the choice. So the true God has control but it is giving you the option to escape eternal torture by acknowledging its reality and denouncing Christ (or for other theists, their previous god(s), for atheists, there non-belief).

I take it from your response just now though that you agree the answer is obviously that we would or at least should denounce our previous faiths/non-faith and testify to the reality of the real god.