01 Jan 07
Originally posted by whodeyI resign! You win.
Notice you said "appears" to have been sinless. I will say that Job was perfect and upright in that he feared God and served God and not that he was sinless. After all, Job died as we all do. Dp you really think men die without having sinned? If so, what right did sin have over them in order to take their lives? Adam was told that the penalty for sin is death. So if Adam had not sinned, Adam would have never died or am I missing something here?
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart.
(King James Bible, Acts)
01 Jan 07
Originally posted by VarqaI suppose I am the one who has a waxy heart that cannot recieve what you are saying. I also suppose that since you could not convince me you are conceeding that you lost to me. However, I thought this to be an exchange of ideas rather than a contest. Therefore, if you would further indulge me, would you answer one more question?
[b]I resign! You win.
For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart.
(King James Bible, Acts)[/b]
WHY DO WE DIE?
01 Jan 07
Originally posted by whodeyThere are two kinds of death mentioned in the Bible. One is a physical death and the other is a spiritual death. This is very clear by this statement in the Bible.
WHY DO WE DIE?
And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
(King James Bible, Luke)
The people he is calling dead are physically alive but dead spiritually.
The one they are burrying is dead physically.
Physical death is not important. Spiritual death is, well, deadly!
Why do we die? I think it is a befitting end to this miserable existance we call life. It is the light at the end of the tunnel. It is the only hope we have that no matter how terrible life is, it will one day end and we will go to a far better place.
02 Jan 07
Originally posted by VarqaSo why did Adam die? Was it not because he sinned or did God simply want to put him out of his misery in such a terrible world?
There are two kinds of death mentioned in the Bible. One is a physical death and the other is a spiritual death. This is very clear by this statement in the Bible.
And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God ...[text shortened]... e that no matter how terrible life is, it will one day end and we will go to a far better place.
02 Jan 07
Originally posted by whodeyPhysical death is a natural part of physical life. Everybody dies. It is no big loss. We just need to get beyod that. Billions of believers have died (physically) since the appearance of Jesus. Even though Jesus said:
So why did Adam die? Was it not because he sinned or did God simply want to put him out of his misery in such a terrible world?
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. John 6:51
What is Jesu talking about here? Bread?
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread...? 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. MAT 16:11,12
Life, death, bread, blood, these are all spiritual concepts, my friend. A person who hears the Word and believes is alive. A person who hear it and does not believe remains dead. When Jesus said.
let the dead bury their dead. MAT 8:22
The person to whom He said it was considered alive by Jesus. That is because he had believed. Those whom He called dead were only physially alive and dead spiritually.
But both the spiritually dead and spiritually alive person ultimately die. But only physically. Spiritually, we go to an afterlife in which the spiritually dead individual will have a HELL of a time.
02 Jan 07
Originally posted by VarqaI do not disagree that there is both spiritual and physical death as well as physical and spiritual life. My question to you, however, is before Adam died, was he destined to die physically and/or spiritually if he had not chosen to sin?
Physical death is a natural part of physical life. Everybody dies. It is no big loss. We just need to get beyod that. Billions of believers have died (physically) since the appearance of Jesus. Even though Jesus said:
[i]I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is ...[text shortened]... ally, we go to an afterlife in which the spiritually dead individual will have a HELL of a time.
02 Jan 07
Originally posted by whodeyIs Adam Created to have eternal life?
I do not disagree that there is both spiritual and physical death as well as physical and spiritual life. My question to you, however, is before Adam died, was he destined to die physically and/or spiritually if he had not chosen to sin?
When did Adam die?
Look at Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Did adam died in the same day he eat from the tree. No, he died 900 years later.
The other important point her is: Was this a punishment of evry sin, or Just eating from the tree?
I think you agree that the sin is evil, and the the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So before eating from the tree Adam was not able to know the difference between the good and evil. This means that he was not able to recognize the sin.
This imply two things:
1- Death was the punishment of this specific action , eating from the tree, because Adam at that time was not able to recognize the sin. Otherwise it will be injustice from GOD to punish Adam for something he don't know.
2- The other point is Adam didn't die at once. But only punished by driven away from GOD, besides the punishment in Gen3:12 to 19.
So the death here was a spritual Death.
So this answers my first Question, Adam was created like any other creature, to be not eternal, and his life will be termitated when his time comes.
What prove my point is the omniscience of GOD. If GOD is omniscience then he knows that Adam will eat from the tree, and he will die.
The idea that Adam destroyed GOD plan , is aganist omniscience of GOD. Don't you agree with me?
02 Jan 07
1 edit
hmm...assume the world is about 6000 years old in our measurement of years (the range I would assume is between 5500 to 6499 years ago...else it would have been about 5000, or 7000 years old instead)
Next assume that the statement God created the world in 7 days is true (actually he is supposed to have taken a breather on the 7th day...no worries)
in that case, since a god day = 1000 years...then by this chronology the world was instantiated about 6000 years ago and then either god finished creating the world < 500 years ago (our years), he has just finished right now creating it, or is still in the process of creating what he has already created!!!
huh?😕🙄