1. Joined
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    26 Nov '12 22:481 edit
    Convince me I should follow your view or philosophy.

    A recent exchange with robbie carrobie provoked me to thinking about openness to new ideas and how, no matter how "informed" or educated a person may claim to be, if they are closed to even the slightest piece of new information or revelation then they/you/me/us are trapped in our own, or worse, someone else's paradigm.

    I want to be open.
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    26 Nov '12 22:56
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Convince me I should follow your view or philosophy.

    A recent exchange with robbie carrobie provoked me to thinking about openness to new ideas and how, no matter how "informed" or educated a person may claim to be, if they are closed to even the slightest piece of new information or revelation then they/you/me/us are trapped in our or worse, someone else's paradigm.

    I want to be open.
    My view is that you should create your own, consistent world view, and follow that.
    That way you can only blame yourself if something goes awry🙂
  3. Joined
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    26 Nov '12 22:58
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Convince me I should follow your view or philosophy.

    A recent exchange with robbie carrobie provoked me to thinking about openness to new ideas and how, no matter how "informed" or educated a person may claim to be, if they are closed to even the slightest piece of new information or revelation then they/you/me/us are trapped in our or worse, someone else's paradigm.

    I want to be open.
    Well I think that is a good suggestion for all of us. I hope it is true with you as I would like to have had many open conversations with you and really everyone here. I don't like to argue about God and his word the Bible whether one does not believe in it or not.
    So if this is the way you would like to be that is a good thing....
  4. Joined
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    26 Nov '12 22:59
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    My view is that you should create your own, consistent world view, and follow that.
    That way you can only blame yourself if something goes awry🙂
    Consistent??
  5. Joined
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    26 Nov '12 23:00
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well I think that is a good suggestion for all of us. I hope it is true with you as I would like to have had many open conversations with you and really everyone here. I don't like to argue about God and his word the Bible whether one does not believe in it or not.
    So if this is the way you would like to be that is a good thing....
    Are you open?
  6. Joined
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    26 Nov '12 23:06
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Are you open?
    I've always been. One cannot learn if one is not.
  7. Joined
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    26 Nov '12 23:45
    Originally posted by galveston75
    I've always been. One cannot learn if one is not.
    Are you open to anything that contradicts JW doctrine?
  8. Joined
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    27 Nov '12 00:15
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Are you open to anything that contradicts JW doctrine?
    Sure. What ya got?
  9. Joined
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    27 Nov '12 00:23
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Sure. What ya got?
    How about you pick any one item from the catelogue of topics you and I have been debating here over the last 4 years, that you are open to change over.

    Any one...
  10. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    27 Nov '12 00:38
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Consistent??
    Yeah consistent. Like if you believe in something it should be consistent with the evidence for that idea/view.
    If another religion tips its hat to an opposing religion (or part of it) then you could say thats a strong view, but there are always other factors and of course dis/misinformation.
    I think all knowledge should start with that you believe/think, true or not.
    I see some Christians take the bible as the original/primary truth. I disagree with that.
    All spirituality should come from oneself first. Perhaps an insight into the 'deeper nature of things'. Apparently these insights, which were once rare are quite common place. (It's just when we try to explain it that the language often breaks down)
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    27 Nov '12 00:40
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Well I think that is a good suggestion for all of us. I hope it is true with you as I would like to have had many open conversations with you and really everyone here. I don't like to argue about God and his word the Bible whether one does not believe in it or not.
    So if this is the way you would like to be that is a good thing....
    I haven't met any JW's that are open to opposing spiritual truths.
    Not even slight bents on their own 'truths'.
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    27 Nov '12 00:481 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Convince me I should follow your view or philosophy.

    A recent exchange with robbie carrobie provoked me to thinking about openness to new ideas and how, no matter how "informed" or educated a person may claim to be, if they are closed to even the slightest piece of new information or revelation then they/you/me/us are trapped in our own, or worse, someone else's paradigm.

    I want to be open.
    BTW,I am open.
    I am open to Christianity, however I am also open to Buddhism.
    My view is to take the good and leave the rest behind.
    My view is that the evolutionists have a point, SOME creationists have a point, and the conflicting histories all contain some truth, and like some big jigsaw puzzle it can all be put together to form a coherent world view, that includes all peaceful races and religions.
    I also endorse a lot of what people like Taoman says.
    To simplify, he is often showing us a paradoxical universe (is. the Named and the Nameless, the manifest and the unmanifest).
    Just like the Tao , you cant have the ying without the yang, and if you want to form a coherent picture of the universe, even if it is Christian based (love the Gnostics btw), then you will have to go past a good/bad view of reality and realize that that's the actuality of the world we live in. A paradox - an oxymoron,if you will.

    But for all my absolute comments, believe or not, I am open to most reasonable suggestions, and have learned much on this forum and elsewhere by doing so.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
    Walk your Faith
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    27 Nov '12 00:52
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Convince me I should follow your view or philosophy.

    A recent exchange with robbie carrobie provoked me to thinking about openness to new ideas and how, no matter how "informed" or educated a person may claim to be, if they are closed to even the slightest piece of new information or revelation then they/you/me/us are trapped in our own, or worse, someone else's paradigm.

    I want to be open.
    Why do you think being open is either a good thing or to be desired? You want
    to be so wavy nothing is solid for you, you want to be swayed by every word
    out of everyone's mouth? Look hard for the truth and stick with, just be sure
    it is the truth.
    Kelly
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    27 Nov '12 01:09
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Why do you think being open is either a good thing or to be desired? You want
    to be so wavy nothing is solid for you, you want to be swayed by every word
    out of everyone's mouth? Look hard for the truth and stick with, just be sure
    it is the truth.
    Kelly
    I think being open is the most important thing if you want to know the truth.
    look at your own words "..just be sure it is the truth." How can he be sure, if he is not open?
    And even after you have latched onto something that makes sense in your life, it doesn't end there, there is fine tuning to do, there are deeper levels of understanding the same words that first moved you.
  15. Melbourne, Australia
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    27 Nov '12 03:431 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Convince me I should follow your view or philosophy.

    A recent exchange with robbie carrobie provoked me to thinking about openness to new ideas and how, no matter how "informed" or educated a person may claim to be, if they are closed to even the slightest piece of new information or revelation then they/you/me/us are trapped in our own, or worse, someone else's paradigm.

    I want to be open.
    Openness, but not "following" or "convincing". Why? These words imply, for me, a threat to openness. They imply choosing one over the other. They imply too many defining edges. This can lead to the destruction of an open heart and mind. With openness all can then be ours.

    If those words are accompanied with such words as "at present", "from this viewpoint", "in this situation or context" then the threat of failure of "openness" is countered.

    But one cannot operate effectively from such a shifting stance, I can expect to hear.

    Sometimes one is gentle, another time hard. Sometimes one is as certain as rock, another time full of airy nothing, saying rocks don't even exist. Be not so sure, even in your certainty and the "spirit" (such a deliciously indefinable word) will move where it will in you, spontaneous and free.
    Some may say it is inconsistent. But openness is consistent with itself.

    The hardest of sciences advance fastest and best where there is openness. Closed scientific stances and positions have always held back mankind. Still do. Dynamic teams are built on openness.-

    But what of Machiavelli and such dark philosophies? Should we not cast them out quickly? Openness does not mean agreement. But if you close immediately off to such what have you gained? What have you learnt of the shifts and corners of the human mind, and a track through them? Have you had your goodness tested by sheer slamming of the door? Your mind sharpened? Your openness may well be the very antidote to the poison it apparently allows in to the room. Openness can swallow darkness in a gulp. True openness is itself invulnerable.

    Being open, truly open is freedom and strength. It is able most effectively to live with the paradoxes and polarities of life. Closed minds stagnate and poison themselves. Closed minds breed fear, suspicion and rejection. Closed minds do not see the dangers coming from the other direction, the different view, the surprise waiting in the different.

    What am I doing? I am trying to convince you to be open - I fail! Ah well, it was fun writing it.
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