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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    14 Feb '18 14:20 / 1 edit
    Yes, Christ taught of the concept of local churches but not to the detail that the apostles did.

    What do I mean by "local church" ? On the most basic level I mean this - the plural "churches" (as in more than one) is mentioned in the New Testament. So there must be the Christian practice of -

    a church here,
    and a church there,
    and another church there,
    and another one over here,
    and another church over there.

    Ie. on the earth more than one church in various places. That is the most basic level. I think Jesus taught such, but the apostles carried it out in greater detail.

    Question: In the so-called "red letters" where did Jesus teach about a local church?
  2. 14 Feb '18 14:30
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Yes, Christ taught of the concept of local churches...
    As opposed to travelling to a foreign country or another city to go to church?
  3. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    14 Feb '18 15:03 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    As opposed to travelling to a foreign country or another city to go to church?
    I see nothing in either Christ's teaching or that of the apostles that a Christian should not travel or visit a church in another city or another country.

    In fact circulation and visiting fellowship is very good for the churches.

    But where, if anywhere, did Jesus (in the so-called "red letters" ) teach about a practical church someWHERE?
  4. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    14 Feb '18 15:51
    Well, if no one can tell me where Jesus spoke to the concept of the local church, maybe I'm wrong or bluffing.

    Maybe such a teaching doesn't exist ? ?

    This is how you could go about finding out. Get a concordance and search for the word "church" and find the instances in the Gospels where He used the word.

    For now we'll leave out the book of Revelation.
  5. 14 Feb '18 16:31 / 2 edits
    As if we need yet another issue for Christians to debate.
  6. 15 Feb '18 02:11
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Yes, Christ taught of the concept of local churches but not to the detail that the apostles did.

    What do I mean by "local church" ? On the most basic level I mean this - the plural [b]"churches"
    (as in more than one) is mentioned in the New Testament. So there must be the Christian practice of -

    a church here,
    and a church there,
    and an ...[text shortened]... etail.

    Question: In the so-called "red letters" where did Jesus teach about a local church?[/b]
    What is funny i that a Red Letterer could theoretically use the "On this Rock I build my Church."

    But then he'd be vaguely buying into a Catholic perspective.

    Too funny when you think about it.
  7. 15 Feb '18 03:56
    Originally posted by @sonship
    I see nothing in either Christ's teaching or that of the apostles that a Christian should not travel or visit a church in another city or another country.

    In fact circulation and visiting fellowship is very good for the churches.

    But where, if anywhere, did Jesus (in the so-called "red letters" ) teach about a practical church someWHERE?
    If I understood what on Earth you were getting at I’d make a stab at responding.
  8. 15 Feb '18 03:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    What is funny i that a Red Letterer could theoretically use the "On this Rock I build my Church."
    But then he'd be vaguely buying into a Catholic perspective.
    Too funny when you think about it.
    What’s “too funny” about it?
  9. 15 Feb '18 03:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Well, if no one can tell me where Jesus spoke to the concept of the local church, maybe I'm wrong or bluffing.

    Maybe such a teaching doesn't exist ? ?

    This is how you could go about finding out. Get a concordance and search for the word "church" and find the instances in the Gospels where He used the word.

    For now we'll leave out the book of [b]Revelation
    .[/b]
    Why should we care if he used the word or not? Did he use the word “distant” church? What are you on about?
  10. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    15 Feb '18 12:23
    Originally posted by @js357
    As if we need yet another issue for Christians to debate.
    Maybe there be no debate and we'll all agree.
    Its possible.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Feb '18 12:30
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Maybe there be no debate and we'll all agree.
    Its possible.
    Do you need the people you are going to preach to to agree with you?
  12. 15 Feb '18 12:37
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    What’s “too funny” about it?
    Coem on, man, y ou are a smart guy. You connect the dots.

    The Catholic Church (and the Orthodox Church) all have HIGHLY developed doctrines based off of a lot more than the red text!
  13. 15 Feb '18 12:38
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    What’s “too funny” about it?
    You gotta give me a break my man, you gotta start ANTICIPATING responses.

    You know what the Catholic Church is like. You know these things. You can take 1 plus 1 and make 2.

    You can do that, right?

    So do it.

    Give my fingers a break.
  14. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    15 Feb '18 12:40 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    What is funny i that a Red Letterer could theoretically use the "On this Rock I build my Church."

    But then he'd be vaguely buying into a Catholic perspective.

    Too funny when you think about it.
    The verse about Christ building His church is about the church universal. She includes all Christians in all places and in all times and throughout all of history. That is the church mentioned in Matthew 16:18 - the universal church

    "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rick I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18)


    The next time Christ mentions "the church" it is the practical church, the church that a Christian can take his problem to. That is the local church. One cannot take his problem to the universal church which covers all ages and all places.

    One can take his problem to a specific practical church on earth. Therefore Matt. 18:17 must refer to the local church.

    "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go, reprove him between you and him alone, If he hears you, you have gained your brother. (v.15)

    But if he does not hear you, take with you one or two more,
    [Christian brothers] that by the mouth of two of three witnesses every word may be established. (v.16)

    And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to hear the church also, let him be to you just like the Gentile and the tax collector. " (v.17)


    In Matthew 16:18 Christ taught of the universal church.
    In Matthew 18:17 Christ taught of the local church.

    What was it that you found so amusing?
  15. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    15 Feb '18 12:55
    The church in Matthew 16:18 is universal. She is the unique body of Christ which includes every believer in Christ that has ever or will ever live. She spans ages. Peter, Mary, John, Priscilla, Aquila, Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Darby, Mrs. Barber, Mrs. Penn Lewis, all are members of the church universal.

    The church mentioned in Matt. 18:17, that one can take his practical problem to must be the church local and practical.

    Of course neither is a physical edifice, a physical building made with human hands. Neither is of brick and mortal or gold.

    I don't know what one poster found funny. But it is not funny that millions of people, Christians and otherwise, typically regard a building with a steeple as "a church".

    Ie. "It is across from the church down there on Main street."
    "What a beautiful church is here in Rome." (meaning physical structures).

    That is a misunderstanding that is no longer, or ever really was, funny.