@secondson saidYou have to take the whole Bible as truth and not cherry pick verses as some do to make their points. You are quite right.
Yes he was. Says so right in the book.
2 Corinthians 5:21a
For he hath made him to be sin for us,..
ESV > For our sake he made him to be sin...
NKJV > For he made him who knew no sin [to be] sin...
NIV > God made him who had no sin to be sin...
CSB > He made the one who did not know sin to be sin...
NET ~ NASB ~ RSV ~ ASV ~ DBY ~ HNV etc. etc.
@caesar-salad said???
Might as well dash the babies of one's enemies against rocks as slaughter the gays in that case.
@caesar-salad saidTruth when it comes to people isn't real pretty regardless of who you are looking at. The thing about the Hebrews and God is that God was consistent and they were not, they would do good, do evil, do good, do evil. They were warned what the results would be and they didn't heed the warnings.
Not cherry-picking includes not turning a blind eye to those uncomfortable verses by those damned ancient Jews, which have caused so much trouble for so many of us at the hands of their dim-witted accomplices at the lower end of the Bell Curve.
Another quite telling thing when God sent Jonah to go to Nineveh, Jonah didn't want to go because he knew God was a God of mercy and Jonah didn't want God's mercy shown to Nineveh. When he ended up there the whole place repented, and God relented, and this pissed off Jonah, because he knew God was a God of mercy. Had the Hebrews ever acted the same way when they were called to repent they would have spared themselves a lot of trouble. Which is no less true for the rest of us as well.
@kellyjay saidSorry, but I'm just not willing to play along with your psychosis, no matter how widespread or "traditional".
Truth when it comes to people isn't real pretty regardless of who you are looking at. The thing about the Hebrews and God is that God was consistent and they were not, they would do good, do evil, do good, do evil. They were warned what the results would be and they didn't heed the warnings.
Another quite telling thing when God sent Jonah to go to Nineveh, Jonah didn't wa ...[text shortened]... hey would have spared themselves a lot of trouble. Which is no less true for the rest of us as well.
@secondson saidSorry sir but you can't have it both ways. If Jesus was 'sinless' then he can't have been 'made' sinful. He 'became' sin to atone for the sins of humanity. He 'became' the curse.
Ok. But how did Jesus "become" a curse?
The second half of that same verse says; "for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"
Both 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Galatians 3:13 are relative to the crucifixion, but each context relates a separate aspect of it.
@caesar-salad saidAnd?
Sorry, but I'm just not willing to play along with your psychosis, no matter how widespread or "traditional".
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou don't grasp the story, do you, all of that study and it falls on blind eyes!
Sorry sir but you can't have it both ways. If Jesus was 'sinless' then he can't have been 'made' sinful. He 'became' sin to atone for the sins of humanity. He 'became' the curse.
The human race was dead in sins; all of us have sinned without exception! There is no fixing dead in sins by one's dead self; the dead don't have a choice; they are dead apart from the life of God. Salvation isn't about making bad people good, but bring dead people back to life and that life is found in God, for us through Jesus Christ who is the Way, Truth, and the Life. He knew no sin became a man lived a sinless life and was killed and had all of our sins placed on Him and the wrath of God was poured on Jesus Christ totally and completely for our sins, all of them.
That payment was in full, and nothing was held back against Christ until that time He had never known sin. Then He rose from the dead, is not seated at the right hand of God interceding for us, because it was on Him what we have done was laid. We can, of course, neglect this great salvation to our harm and remain in our sins in which case we can explain it to Jesus on the day He judges us. The choice is ours and you are playing word games.
@kellyjay saidI grasp your inability to intellectualize what you have read.
You don't grasp the story, do you, all of that study and it falls on blind eyes!
The human race was dead in sins; all of us have sinned without exception! There is no fixing dead in sins by one's dead self; the dead don't have a choice; they are dead apart from the life of God. Salvation isn't about making bad people good, but bring dead people back to life and that life ...[text shortened]... can explain it to Jesus on the day He judges us. The choice is ours and you are playing word games.
If Jesus did indeed have our sins placed on him then you are, in fact, agreeing with me that he wasn't 'made 'to be sin.
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Might as well dash the babies of one's enemies against rocks as slaughter the gays in that case.
Do you want to have a serious discussion about your problem passages with me?
If so, how about you go find your references which furnish your bases of the two criticisms. And maybe I can share with you why such passages have not caused me to renounce faith in the Son of God.
That's all.
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So, in short, I believe it is possible to concede that Jesus told an untruth, while maintaining his sinless nature.
What I read there is that He said it was not yet His time to go up to the feast. He said it was always their time. They did whatever they pleased whenever they pleased to do it.
Though Jesus may have wanted to go up, the Father to whom He was ever obedient had a different timing. And it was not the Father's time to go up then.
Now latter, He went up. And I believe it was because THEN it was the right TIME by the indwelling Father. So He went up in obedience. He did everything in obedience.
"Jesus therefore said to them, My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. (v.6)
The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me, because I testify concerning it, that its works are evil. (v.7)
You go up to the feast; I am not going uip to this feast, BECAUSE MY TIME HAS NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED. (v.8)
[my bolding obviously]
And having said these things to them, He remained in Galilee. (v.9)
But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not openly, but as it were in secret." (v.10)
@sonship saidAre you in no way troubled by:
@Ghost-of-a-DukeSo, in short, I believe it is possible to concede that Jesus told an untruth, while maintaining his sinless nature.
What I read there is that He said it was not yet His time to go up to the feast. He said it was always their time. They did whatever they pleased whenever they pleased to do it.
Though Jesus may have wanted to go ...[text shortened]... st, then He Himself also went up, not openly, but as it were in secret." (v.10) [/b] [/quote]
'But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not openly, but as it were in secret.' - Are you unable to read between the lines?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI have never said He was made to be sin.
I grasp your inability to intellectualize what you have read.
If Jesus did indeed have our sins placed on him then you are, in fact, agreeing with me that he wasn't 'made 'to be sin.