Did Jesus sin?

@kellyjay said
No doubt, but this is not a matter of academic opinion that prevails here, but the truth.

This is my take on why Jesus felt it was okay to lie to his brothers.

There are 2 kinds of lie, 'white lies' and 'malicious lies.' Only the second of these is sinful. The untruth that Jesus said to his brothers about attending the festival came from a 'good intention' and so should not be considered bad or wrong. (It was important that his attendance at the festival was in secret, for everyone's safety). A lie told to protect oneself or someone else from harm is not a sin against God. Likewise, a lie to spare someone's feelings is a 'kindness' not a sinful act. Take, for example, a person ravaged by an illness who asks you how they look, just before they muster the courage to leave the house and face the world. Now, what if the truthful answer was 'you look really unwell' and that this answer would destroy whatever little self-confidence they have left. Would it really be a sin to lie to them and tell them they looked good, knowing this response would give them the reassurance they needed?

So, in short, I believe it is possible to concede that Jesus told an untruth, while maintaining his sinless nature.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I spent several years studying scripture Kelly, but if you wish to dismiss any knowledge I have as meaningless that is your prerogative. (I guess).

In John 7 Jesus appears to lie to his brothers about attending the Festival of Tabernacles. (Tells them he isn't going, but then goes in secret).


"You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, becaus ...[text shortened]... lso, not publicly, but in secret.'

Please explain why this was not a case of Jesus telling a lie?

Jesus put a qualifier on the statement, for His time had not fully come! As I told you earlier Jesus was following the Holy Spirit's leading, He didn't go with them, then He did alone. He did not say I'm not going up ever.

You have no idea who God is, and you charge Christ with lying, and yet when it comes to things in nature on in scripture, you miss God entirely and the truth. Years of studying things are meaningless, you know as well as I do those that killed Jesus studied for years, their whole lives were spent studying scripture. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life, and you are missing the entire point of scripture in your denial of the God who is here and always has been.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
This is my take on why Jesus felt it was okay to lie to his brothers.

There are 2 kinds of lie, 'white lies' and 'malicious lies.' Only the second of these is sinful. The untruth that Jesus said to his brothers about attending the festival came from a 'good intention' and so should not be considered bad or wrong. (It was important that his attendance at the festiva ...[text shortened]... believe it is possible to concede that Jesus told an untruth, while maintaining his sinless nature.

He can tell the truth and have people who want to find fault, will find it, if it is there or not. He can tell the truth, and people can misunderstand and find fault. The thing about Christ He is the embodiment of the Truth, He said I am the Truth, He didn't say I tell the truth. His life and death carry much more meaning because of who He is, not just what He did. All have sinned, we were all lost in sin all of us were dead in our sin, and God sent His Word, His Son, to us while we were yet sinners to be one of us, to give His life away for us, and show us how to live and die. Last day of His life, He didn't throw a party knowing it was all about to end badly for Himself; instead, He washed feet. The one thing you should recognize about Jesus is He is the Word of God made flesh, we cannot put someone else in His place, only Christ could do what He did for the reasons He did them.

@kellyjay said
Years of studying things are meaningless, you know as well as I do those that killed Jesus studied for years, their whole lives were spent studying scripture.

But your years of studying scripture are not meaningless?

It was the Romans who killed Jesus.

To Jews, Jesus was a fake and an imposter ~ and Jews still believe that.

@sonship said
@SecondSon

"Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse on our behalf; because it is written, Cursed is everyone hanging on a tree?" (Gal. 3:13)

Did God making Him a curse result in Him having become a curse ?

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

"For he(God) hath made him(Jesus) to be sin..."

But, Galatians 3:13 does not say "he"(God) "made" "Him"(Jesus) to "become a curse".

Two separate contexts, and two separate concepts. The error, it seems, is that people who read the Bible have the tendency to gloss over the specific language of the narrative and blend together ideas that don't mesh or support each other relative to what the particular verse or verses are actually saying with regards to the topic.

Your question above is a good example. Galatians 3:13 does not say what your question is inferring. Your question assumes to transfer the idea of God "making" Jesus "to be sin", as asserted in 2 Corinthians 5, into the language of Galatians 3.

Do you see what I'm saying?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Surely if Paul was correct and believers 'become' righteous then Jesus 'became' the representative embodiment of sin?

Jesus was "made" sin so that believers might be "made the righteousness of God in him."

The language of scripture is clear and free of confusion. The confusion is in man.

If I say "I made a face" you would understand that I meant I contorted my face to change my appearance, like from happy to sad for example.

But if I said "I become a face" you wouldn't know what I meant.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
How does a believer maintain that righteousness when further sin is unavoidable?

He doesn't.

If "righteousness" is "imputed" by God, then how can a believer "maintain" it? God maintains.

What would happen if you had to maintain your heart beat? You'd die, right?

If a believer had to do something to maintain the righteousness God imputes the believer would fail to do it.

Romans 10:6,7
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)


"Of faith". Who can go into heaven and retrieve righteousness? Or descend into the deep to maintain it?

It's all of faith.

@secondson said
Jesus was "made" sin so that believers might be "made the righteousness of God in him."

The language of scripture is clear and free of confusion. The confusion is in man.

If I say "I made a face" you would understand that I meant I contorted my face to change my appearance, like from happy to sad for example.

But if I said "I become a face" you wouldn't know what I meant.

'Becoming' something is a process, and it was a process Jesus (reportedly) went through in becoming the representative embodiment of sin. He wasn't made sin, he became sin through the process of crucifixion and atonement.

@ogb said
OK so Jesus was human, too. So which commandments did he break.?

He didn't throw the first stone ... so.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
He wasn't made sin,.

Yes he was. Says so right in the book.

2 Corinthians 5:21a
For he hath made him to be sin for us,..

ESV > For our sake he made him to be sin...
NKJV > For he made him who knew no sin [to be] sin...
NIV > God made him who had no sin to be sin...
CSB > He made the one who did not know sin to be sin...
NET ~ NASB ~ RSV ~ ASV ~ DBY ~ HNV etc. etc.

@secondson said
Yes he was. Says so right in the book.

2 Corinthians 5:21a
For he hath made him to be sin for us,..

ESV > For our sake he made him to be sin...
NKJV > For he made him who knew no sin [to be] sin...
NIV > God made him who had no sin to be sin...
CSB > He made the one who did not know sin to be sin...
NET ~ NASB ~ RSV ~ ASV ~ DBY ~ HNV etc. etc.

Same book says:

'Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.'

Galatians 3:13

@SecondSon

Your question above is a good example. Galatians 3:13 does not say what your question is inferring. Your question assumes to transfer the idea of God "making" Jesus "to be sin", as asserted in 2 Corinthians 5, into the language of Galatians 3.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I don't yet understand your objection though it may be valid. It is one of the things I will look into sometime.

Ie. "God made Him to be sin" verses "Christ became sin."

Perhaps I would ask you - "If I do say that God made Him to be sin means He became sin, WHAT side effect or result of this understanding would would concern you ?"

I would explore HOW you feel that that equivalency does some damage to glory of Christ or the truth of His work. What is the pitfall you are avoiding by not saying "Christ became sin" ?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Same book says:

'Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us.'

Galatians 3:13

Ok. But how did Jesus "become" a curse?

The second half of that same verse says; "for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"

Both 2 Corinthians 5:21 and Galatians 3:13 are relative to the crucifixion, but each context relates a separate aspect of it.

@sonship said
@SecondSon

Your question above is a good example. Galatians 3:13 does not say what your question is inferring. Your question assumes to transfer the idea of God "making" Jesus "to be sin", as asserted in 2 Corinthians 5, into the language of Galatians 3.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I don't yet understand your objection though it may be valid. It is ...[text shortened]... t or the truth of His work. What is the pitfall you are avoiding by not saying "Christ became sin" ?

The "side effect" is this; 2 Corinthians 5:21 says God "made" Jesus to be sin.

One cannot say "God became Jesus to be sin" and make any sense of it, at least not grammatically.

Jesus did not "become" sin. That would make him a sinner.

Jesus "knew no sin", so how could he "become" sin?

Jesus had "to be made sin", to bear the wrath of God on the cross.

I hope that helps.