1. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Oct '16 03:031 edit
    "The art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers". ~ merriam-webster.com

    When people use a combination of things "learned" from the supposedly divinely inspired Bible ~ inspired by a supernatural being, or so many believe ~ along with an interpretation of signs, events and omens around the world, in order to predict things like the onset of 'the end times' etc. ~ as posters like roigam, Suzianne, RJHinds, sonship, galveston75 have ~ is this "divination", or does the term have a narrower meaning in discussions of spiritual matters?
  2. Standard membervivify
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    16 Oct '16 03:13
    Divination according to Christianity, is predicting the future through supernatural means apart from their god. Supernaturally predicting the future through their god is called "prophecy".
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Oct '16 03:16
    Originally posted by vivify
    Divination according to Christianity, is predicting the future through supernatural means apart from their god. Supernaturally predicting the future through their god is called "prophecy".
    Isn't using the Bible, for all intents and purposes, a paranormal means if one is claiming that the messages contained in it are the result of communication with a supernatural entity?
  4. Standard membersonship
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    25 Oct '16 15:38
    Originally posted by FMF
    "The art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers". ~ merriam-webster.com

    When people use a combination of things "learned" from the supposedly divinely inspired Bible ~ inspired by a supernatural being, or so many believe ~ along with ...[text shortened]... this "divination", or does the term have a narrower meaning in discussions of spiritual matters?
    When people use a combination of things "learned" from the supposedly divinely inspired Bible ~ inspired by a supernatural being, or so many believe ~ along with an interpretation of signs, events and omens around the world, in order to predict things like the onset of 'the end times' etc. ~ as posters like roigam, Suzianne, RJHinds, sonship, galveston75 have ~ is this "divination", or does the term have a narrower meaning in discussions of spiritual matters?


    This depends on some things.

    Jesus used the flourishing of the fig tree to be a sign of the end of the church age.
    The fig tree was a symbol of Israel.
    The reformation of the nation of Israel caused many Bible students to pay attention to developing world events.

    You can read it if you're interested. Matthew 24.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Oct '16 11:49
    Originally posted by FMF
    "The art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers". ~ merriam-webster.com

    When people use a combination of things "learned" from the supposedly divinely inspired Bible ~ inspired by a supernatural being, or so many believe ~ along with ...[text shortened]... this "divination", or does the term have a narrower meaning in discussions of spiritual matters?
    If you boil down everything I've written in this forum as an effort to "predict things like the onset of 'the end times' ", then you have wildly missed my point, as usual.

    And if you naively call this 'divination', then again, you are wildly mistaken.
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Oct '16 12:411 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    If you boil down everything I've written in this forum as an effort to "predict things like the onset of 'the end times' ", then you have wildly missed my point, as usual.

    And if you naively call this 'divination', then again, you are wildly mistaken.
    It's very easy to simply say that someone has wildly missed your point or that they are wildly mistaken or naive, but it's harder to justify it or explain why. It'd be interesting to hear you have a try.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Oct '16 20:23
    Originally posted by FMF
    It's very easy to simply say that someone has wildly missed your point or that they are wildly mistaken or naive, but it's harder to justify it or explain why. It'd be interesting to hear you have a try.
    One doesn't necessarily have to 'justify' the bleeding obvious, and it would take precious minutes of my time, which I could then never get back.

    You, however, are free to get out your sledgehammer and beat this dead horse topic into unrecognisibility, as you usually do, presumably to make some kind of nebulous 'point'.

    Knock yourself out.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Oct '16 22:40
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    One doesn't necessarily have to 'justify' the bleeding obvious, and it would take precious minutes of my time, which I could then never get back.

    You, however, are free to get out your sledgehammer and beat this dead horse topic into unrecognisibility, as you usually do, presumably to make some kind of nebulous 'point'.

    Knock yourself out.
    As a follower of Jesus you have used information from what you see as a supernatural source, in combination with signs and omens you see around us, to predict that the world as we know it will end in your lifetime. Isn't that a form of divination?
  9. Standard membersonship
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    28 Oct '16 00:36
    Originally posted by FMF
    And what is the purpose of these innuendos to those who think the questions involve nonsense as opposed to those who don't think they involve nonsense ?
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Oct '16 04:26
    Originally posted by sonship
    And what is the purpose of these innuendos to those who think the questions involve nonsense as opposed to those who don't think they involve nonsense ?
    I am interested in what "divination" actually means in practical terms and upon what basis Christians seek to opt out of the word applying to them. I don't see any innuendos in what I am saying or asking ~ I think I am being forthright and clear, your paranoia and wounded self-righteousness notwithstanding.
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    28 Oct '16 15:321 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    I am interested in what "divination" actually means in practical terms and upon what basis Christians seek to opt out of the word applying to them. I don't see any innuendos in what I am saying or asking ~ I think I am being forthright and clear, your paranoia and wounded self-righteousness notwithstanding.
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05048b.htm

    Probably more that you want to read about the Catholic view of divination. The final paragraph:

    "In the N.T. diviners are not specifically mentioned except in Acts 16:16, concerning the girl who had a pythonical spirit, but it is altogether likely that Simon Magus (Acts 8:9), Elymas (Acts 13:6), and others (2 Timothy 3:13), including the possessors of the magical books burnt at Ephesus (Acts 19:19), practised divination and that it is included in the wonders by which Antichrist will seduce many (Revelation 19:20). Under the New Law all divination is forbidden because, placed on a higher plane than under the Old Dispensation we are taught not to be solicitous for the morrow (Matthew 6:34), but to trust Him perfectly Who numbers the very hairs of our heads (Matthew 10:30). In divination, apart from the fraud of the Father of Lies, there was much merely human fraud and endless deception the predictions were generally as vague and as worthless as modern fortune-telling, and the general result then as now favoured vice and injured virtue."
  12. Standard membersonship
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    28 Oct '16 16:473 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    I am interested in what "divination" actually means in practical terms and upon what basis Christians seek to opt out of the word applying to them. I don't see any innuendos in what I am saying or asking ~ I think I am being forthright and clear, your paranoia and wounded self-righteousness notwithstanding.
    Paranoid and wounded self righteousness. Wow.

    Here's your request.

    I am interested in what "divination" actually means


    Okay.

    Look again:

    I am interested in what "divination" actually means in practical terms and upon what basis Christians seek to opt out of the word applying to them.


    If you don't know what "divination" actually means then why jump to the conclusion that it applies to Christians studying, say, prophesy?

    It sounds like what you are really saying is - " I know what it means and Christians who talk about prophesy do it all the time."



    I don't see any innuendos in what I am saying or asking ~ I think I am being forthright and clear, your paranoia and wounded self-righteousness notwithstanding.

    in practical terms and upon what basis Christians seek to opt out of the word applying to them.


    So then you know what it means and you know that Christians opt out of the term as it is applied to them. Really forthright.

    Anyway, the brief paragraph that JS357 pasted in is helpful.


    I don't see any innuendos in what I am saying or asking ~ I think I am being forthright and clear, your paranoia and wounded self-righteousness notwithstanding.


    Sounds to me that you are the paranoid guy and self-righteous too.

    But, putting that aside, Yes, practically anything you can find outside of the normal church, in the world, there could be a counterfeit "Christian" version of. And some people do use the Bible superstitiously.

    Every believer consulting prophecy fulfillment is not practicing divination.

    Daniel when captured away with the rest of Jews, to Babylon, studied the prophesy of Jeremiah. He did so so as to ascertain how long the discipline of God was to be upon the Hebrews. He learned that it would be seventy years.

    He was not practicing divination.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    28 Oct '16 19:321 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    As a follower of Jesus you have used information from what you see as a supernatural source, in combination with signs and omens you see around us, to predict that the world as we know it will end in your lifetime. Isn't that a form of divination?
    No.

    You know, as evidenced by others here, your question could be succinctly answered by just a little research, but you probably find it eminently easier to sling mud and deride Christians, which seems a hobby of yours which you seem to derive great pleasure from.

    Education goes a long way towards helping one to not seem quite so stupid. Try it some time.
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Oct '16 22:09
    Originally posted by sonship
    If you don't know what "divination" actually means then why jump to the conclusion that it applies to Christians studying, say, prophesy?

    It sounds like what you are really saying is - " I know what it means and Christians who talk about prophesy do it all the time."
    Of course I know what "divination" means. If there are Christians who are using supernatural communication to make prophesies then I think that it's clearly a form of "divination". But I am interested in how how they seek to 'absolve' themselves of the definition applying to them and the nature of what they do when they talk about the meaning of signs and omens in the world.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Oct '16 22:11
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    No.

    You know, as evidenced by others here, your question could be succinctly answered by just a little research, but you probably find it eminently easier to sling mud and deride Christians, which seems a hobby of yours which you seem to derive great pleasure from.

    Education goes a long way towards helping one to not seem quite so stupid. Try it some time.
    You're still dodging the point blank question - and the topic of this thread - about how you have arrived at your prophesy that the world will end in your lifetime.
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