Divination

Originally posted by sonship
But, putting that aside, Yes, practically anything you can find outside of the normal church, in the world, there could be a counterfeit "Christian" version of. And some people do use the Bible superstitiously.

Would you describe Christians who use Revelation, for example, to predict the onset of the "end times" quite specifically ~ in their lifetimes, for example ~ as people who are "using the Bible superstitiously"?

Originally posted by FMF
Would you describe Christians who use Revelation, for example, to predict the onset of the "end times" quite specifically ~ in their lifetimes, for example ~ as people who are "using the Bible superstitiously"?

It depends.
It could be and it could not be.

And just because one is not using Revelation superstitiously does not guarantee that his or her interpretation will turn out to be correct.

I would prefer that one handle the prophecies trusting in God and unsuperstitiously and be wrong than one handle them with occult methods and turn out to be right.

Under no circumstances would I trust or desire superstitious occult like munipulation of the word of God.

Originally posted by FMF
Would you describe Christians who use Revelation, for example, to predict the onset of the "end times" quite specifically ~ in their lifetimes, for example ~ as people who are "using the Bible superstitiously"?

Since Christ specifically said that no one knows the day or the hour of His coming, no one knows the day or the hour.

Howard Camping is a tragic example of a Bible teacher who thought he could pin point at least the day of the Rapture. He should have known better.

Did Howard Camping practice divination ? I don't know much about his methods.
But he was predictably going to make a fool of himself and bring disrepute to the Christian public in some quarters.

He had been warned.

Originally posted by sonship
It depends.
It could be and it could not be.

And just because one is not using Revelation superstitiously does not guarantee that his or her interpretation will turn out to be correct.

I would prefer that one handle the prophecies trusting in God and unsuperstitiously and be wrong than one handle them with occult methods and turn out to be right. ...[text shortened]... circumstances would I trust or desire superstitious occult like munipulation of the word of God.

Well, gosh. You start a thread complaining that some other Christians are not gushing rapturously enough for your self-aggrandizing liking, and yet you remain silent when Christians use Revelation superstitiously to predict the end of the world in their lifetimes ~ you bandy about the word "counterfeit" in a post to me, and yet you do not confront them in open discussion and debate.

Originally posted by sonship
Did Howard Camping practice divination ? I don't know much about his methods.
But he was predictably going to make a fool of himself and bring disrepute to the Christian public in some quarters.

He had been warned.

Howard Camping wasn't a member of this community and he can't be here to debate with you. But there are members of this community who have made pretty concrete predictions of the end of the world. Have any of them made fools of themselves or brought disrepute to the Christian public, as you put it? It's interesting that you don't debate them on this - and yet are happy to say things about a man who is dead.

Originally posted by FMF

You start a thread complaining that some other Christians are not gushing rapturously enough for your self-aggrandizing liking, and yet you remain silent when Christians use Revelation superstitiously to predict the end of the world in their lifetimes ~ you bandy about the word "counterfeit" in a post to me, and yet you do not confront them in open discussion and debate.

What thread was THAT ??

It seems you're the one gushing rapturously, salivating to make an accusation.

Oh, while I think of it. Maybe I didn't get your poetry too well on the song about the little Red Rooster. But the "joylessness" of it wasn't misunderstood by me. That is unless the lyrics were intended to be joyous, which I doubt.

And this was pointed out because you jolly to always say "sonship, you're joyless"
Physician heal thyself.

Now Howard Camping being dead is pretty irrelevant. I just used him as a notable example of failed prediction, maybe bordering on divination. But I could be mistaken because I don't know that much about his methods, as I said before.

"End of the world" ?

The "end of the world" thing probably depends on your viewpoint. Jesus Himself spoke of the end. But it is the beginning two of a new world.

Diviniation is consulting with what the Old Testament referred to as "familar spirits". These were demonic spirits which aided neocramacers, witches, soothsayers, astrologers, enchanters, etc. in their occult activities.

Sometimes there was mixture and the Isrealites mixed up occult things with the things of God. It happens in the new covenant church as well.

If I knew definitely that someone here was in danger of that I would be more interested in helping them. Whereas your priorities are with accusation.

Here's a prediction for you. I predict that you will come to God in unconditional surrender one way or another. Me too.

Now if anyone wants to know my prediction of the coming of Christ, get a paper and pencil and I will give you my prediction derived from Scripture.

Are you all ready? Got pen? Got pad or paper?

Here it is:

" Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." (Matt. 24:44)

Originally posted by sonship

Oh, while I think of it. Maybe I didn't get your poetry too well on the song about the little Red Rooster. But the "joylessness" of it wasn't misunderstood by me. That is unless the lyrics were intended to be joyous, which I doubt.

And this was pointed out because you jolly to always say "sonship, you're joyless"
Physician heal thyself.

What on earth are you on about?

FMF: You start a thread complaining that some other Christians are not gushing rapturously enough for your self-aggrandizing liking

Originally posted by sonship
What thread was THAT ??

This one: Thread 170532

Originally posted by sonship

"End of the world" ?

The "end of the world" thing probably depends on your viewpoint. Jesus Himself spoke of the end. But it is the beginning two of a new world.

Diviniation is consulting with what the Old Testament referred to as "familar spirits". These were demonic spirits which aided neocramacers, witches, soothsayers, astrologers, enchanters, etc. in their occult activities.

Sometimes there was mixture and the Isrealites mixed up occult things with the things of God. It happens in the new covenant church as well.

If I knew definitely that someone here was in danger of that I would be more interested in helping them. Whereas your priorities are with accusation.

Here's a prediction for you. I predict that you will come to God in unconditional surrender one way or another. Me too.

Now if anyone wants to know my prediction of the coming of Christ, get a paper and pencil and I will give you my prediction derived from Scripture.

Are you all ready? Got pen? Got pad or paper?

Here it is:

" Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." (Matt. 24:44)

You have completely sidestepped every point I put to you.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Oh, while I think of it. Maybe I didn't get your poetry too well on the song about the little Red Rooster. But the "joylessness" of it wasn't misunderstood by me. That is unless the lyrics were intended to be joyous, which I doubt.

And this was pointed out because you jolly to always say "sonship, you're joyless"
Physician heal thyself.

What on earth are you on about?[/b]

Ya said in essence - "You didn't get the political / environmental meaning of the poetry in that song."

(Might have not been this thread)

Yep, But I did get that if you're going to call me "joyless" you might inject some joy in your own speaking out to the world.

That's what on earth I was talking about.

Originally posted by sonship
Ya said in essence - "You didn't get the political / environmental meaning of the poetry in that song."

Yep, But I did get that if you're going to call me "joyless" you might inject some in your own speaking out to the world.

That's what on earth I was talking about.

What on earth have my songs got to do with your endless dry regurgitations of dogma about your ridiculous torturer god ideology which contain no insight into anything except the business of regurgitating dogma and you thinking stuff about yourself? I have been around Christians all my life and you are one of the most joyless ideologues I have ever encountered. I don't see what some songs I wrote have to do with this.

Originally posted by FMF
What on earth have my songs got to do with your endless dry regurgitations of dogma about your ridiculous torturer god ideology which contain no insight into anything except the business of regurgitating dogma and you thinking stuff about yourself? I have been around Christians all my life and you are one of the most joyless ideologues I have ever encountered. I don't see what some songs I wrote have to do with this.

in one of these threads I asked you to lay out your case if you think God and eternal punishment have to be mutually exclusive concepts.

Did you do it yet?
I mean you were complaining about "sidestepping" ?

Can't remember which thread it was. But if you think it is unthinkable that God would punish forever, I don't think you have explained why that has to be impossible.

Lay out why this is ridiculous.
Did you do so yet ?


It was on Intelligent? Design

When I asked you to explain WHY you think it could be that God and eternal punishment must be mutually exclusive concepts, you complained about my "sidestepping". So it seems now it is the appropriate time for me to re-ask.

Explain, if you think that the concept of a just and righteous and holy God is in principle mutually exclusive to the prospect of eternal punishment -

These two cannot co-exist logically?, morally?, scientifically?, rationally?, ethically? spiritually?

Lay out your case.
Do you think a loving and just God belief is intrinsically incompatible with the prospect of eternal punishment?

Explain Why God could not, cannot, could never, would never .. punish forever.
And as I have very much already, I'll contemplate your reasons for this.

Originally posted by sonship
in one of these threads I asked you to lay out your case if you think God and eternal punishment have to be mutually exclusive concepts.

Did you do it yet?
I mean you were complaining about "sidestepping" ? ?

I am waiting for you to stop sidestepping the key questions I asked you. You, here, asking me to type stuff about something else, is you sidestepping the questions. Do you see?

What are the tortured people guilty of? What explicit contractual obligation or broken promise are they in breech of? What is their wrongdoing and who is the "victim" of it?

Originally posted by FMF
What on earth have my songs got to do with your endless dry regurgitations of dogma about your ridiculous torturer god ideology which contain no insight into anything except the business of regurgitating dogma and you thinking stuff about yourself? I have been around Christians all my life and you are one of the most joyless ideologues I have ever encountered. I don't see what some songs I wrote have to do with this.

regurgitating dogma

One man's "regurgitating dogma" is another man's golden treasures.

You mean you don't remember when you were a born again Christian singing -

"I love to tell the story to those who know it best.
T'will be my theme in glory.
To tell the old old story,
Of Jesus and His love." ?

So I regurgitate. Cows regurgitate too you know? They "chew the cud" for more and more nourishment.

You don't have to listen to the re-telling you know?
You don't have to read it.