Divination

Concerning the signs of Christ's coming: Rather than a simple objective possessing of correct information, the New Testament warns the believers not to be foolish, but to understand the will of God.

" Look therefore carefully how you walk, not as unwise but as wise,

Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is." (Eph. 5:15-17)

Divination may just be possessing secretive coded knowledge about future events. The Bible here rather exhorts that seeing the signs of the times cause the Christian to redeem the time wisely. This wisdom we see in the next passage is in the enjoyment of being filled with the Holy Spirit:

"And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissolution, but be filled with the Spirit." (v.18)

This being filled with the enjoyment of the Spirit is redeeming the time wisely. And it also involves the believers speaking to one another the Scriptures and the spiritual songs and hymns based on Scripture.

"Speaking to one another is psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and psalming with your heart to the Lord. (v.19)

Paul goes on to mention thanksgiving instead of murmurings at all times. This is especially helpful in these days when people are so given to murmuring and eloquent complaining about nearly everything.

Thanksgiving and praise always touch the throne of God and result in blessing:

"Giving thanks at all times for all things in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to our God and Father.

Being subject to one another in the fear of Christ." (vs. 20,21)

Originally posted by sonship

Do you believe, when you are calling people "fools" in public like this, that they are going to accept or somehow realize that they are "fools"

If you would like to alter the verse to read something else you are free to do that.

Here are some other translations.

[quote] [b] Holman Christian Standard Bible
For the choir di ...[text shortened]... rd come in. Lord be my very wisdom in this area of my thinking. Thankyou Lord Jesus. Amen." [/b][/b]

For who's benefit or consumption are you calling people "fools"?

Originally posted by FMF
For who's benefit or consumption are you calling people "fools"?

The one who realizes how thinking in his heart that there is no God is foolish.
Such were some of us who are now saved.

Originally posted by sonship
The one who realizes how thinking in his heart that there is no God is foolish.
Such were some of us who are now saved.

People who believe in God are foolish. - Are you okay with me making such a statement?

If not, why are you at liberty to say the same about unbelievers?

Concerning signs of the changing of the age, climate change seems to be predicted by Jesus Christ before His second coming. In the midst of His talk is also indications of military troubles connected to the city of Jerusalem and persecution of the Jews (which of course has been pretty much a constant in history).


First we look at His warnings about these things. Then we will look at His attitude about hearers having this knowledge and an appropriate response.

Luke 21:24-27 speaks of the roaring of the sea and the perplexity of earth's inhabitants over the running wild of nature. And there will be fearful astronomical signs also that something cataclysmic is about to occur to the planet.

"And they will fall by the edge of the sword and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. (v.24)

And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth anguish of nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the billows, (v.25)

Men fainting from fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (v.26)

And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." ( Luke 21:24-27)

We were warned by Jesus Christ of cataclysmic events understood and not understood, shortly preceding His second coming.

But Christ includes the response to the hearers:

1.) Not to be terrified but anticipation of His redemption coming near.

"And when these things begin to happen, stand erect and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." (v.28)

2.) Know that as the summer fallows the winter, the coming of these things heralds a "new season" or a new age upon the earth.

"So also, when you see these things happening, know that the summer is already near." (v.30)

3.) Know that these things are inevitable and we should not expect God's kingdom over the earth will never be realized.

"So also you, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near." (v.31)

4.) Know that His word is more stable and secure than the very physical universe.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away." (v.33)

5.) Know not to be befuddles and weighed down by the stupor inducing age of anxiety.
Rather be spiritually vigilant and sober minded.

"But take heed to yourselves lest perhaps your hearts be weighed down with debauchery and drunkeness and the anxieties of life, and the day come upon you suddenly as a snare." (v.34)

6.) Be warned that no place on earth will be exempt from calamity. Going somewhere else will not help that much.

"For it will come in upon all those dwelling on the face of all the earth." (v.35)

7.) Therefore depending on Christ, drawing closer to God, and petitioning for His preservation out of these calamities to be able to stand before Him, is exhorted.

"But be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man." (v.36)

I agree with the interpretation that this last exhortation is concerning rapture by Christ out of the earth to stand before the Son of Man in heaven before He physically descends to the planet.

Originally posted by sonship
The one who realizes how thinking in his heart that there is no God is foolish.
Such were some of us who are now saved.

So who exactly is it you are claiming [or pretending] benefits from you calling people "fools"?

Originally posted by FMF
So who exactly is it you are claiming [or pretending] benefits from you calling people "fools"?

If you start a thread and then personally get no benefit out of it, that's not our fault who participate in the thread.

Originally posted by sonship
If you start a thread and then personally get no benefit out of it, that's not our fault who participate in the thread.

What benefit did you get out of you "divegeester is really a nice guy" thread?

Originally posted by divegeester
What benefit did you get out of you "divegeester is really a nice guy" thread?

Who knows? A self serving chuckle probably.

Originally posted by sonship
If you start a thread and then personally get no benefit out of it, that's not our fault who participate in the thread.

Why are you stonewalling? You referred to people as "fools" and cited an ancient Hebrew text. Who exactly do you think benefits from you doing this?

Originally posted by FMF
For who's benefit or consumption are you calling people "fools"?

Apparently, yours.

When you saw this post of his, did you thank God that he had added more grist for your mill?

Apparently, not.

Isn't using the Bible, for all intents and purposes, a paranormal means if one is claiming that the messages contained in it are the result of communication with a supernatural entity?

This is trying to use the Bible to devalue God.

This is like the child who has to sit upon the lap of the father in order to be able to reach the father's face to slap it.

"We are going to take what the Bible says about the evils of divination and use those very warnings to accuse use of the Bible as an occult practice."

To be fair, the Bible gives us plenty of heads up that God's word itself will be misused by people with questionable motives. Let's skip over the serpent in Genesis 3 and go to Lamech in Genesis 4. .

This is the first recorded instance in the Bible of a human being using God's words in a perverted way to achieve an evil and self-serving result. It is not so much an occult instance. But it is a using God's words totally contrary to God's heart and Spirit.

God had told Cain that God would punish anyone who took vengeance on Cain for the murder of his brother Abel in chapter 4.

Lamech the polygamous and murderer boasted and threatened warping what God had pronounced before:

" And Lamech said to his wives,

Adah and Zillah, listen to my voice; O wives of Lamech, hearken to my speech;
For I have slain a man for wounding me,
Even a young man for striking me.

If Cain is avenged sevenfold, then Lamech seventy-sevenfold." (Gen. 4:23-24)

The words of God Lamech referred to accurately. The spirit, the motive, the intention and heart of his usage of God's words was totally sinful.

I say this to avoid the impression that it is impossible for God's Bible to be abused and even with occult and divination like abuses.

All reference to prophecy is not occult abuse of the Bible.
The existence of counterfeit money does not prove that real money does not exist.

And plenty of example of more proper consideration of Bible prophecy was provided. That is the predictions motivate to draw closer to God for deeper spiritual purity and moral righteous living.

Here is Paul's exhortation to the Christians not to mix up their Christian faith with the defrauding occult or paranormal philosophical distractions.

" Let no one defraud you by judging you unworthy of your prize, in self-chosen lowliness and the worship of the angels, dwelling on the things which he has seen, vainly puffed up by the mind set on the flesh,

And not holding the Head [Christ] out from whom all the Body [of Christ as a corporate entity] grows with the growth of God. " (Col. 2:18,19)

Originally posted by sonship
Who knows? A self serving chuckle probably.

Are you claiming you don't know why you started it?