Divorced after 25 happy years

@fmf said
It was as real to me back then as it is real to you now.

So what? Never denied that, I take you at your word, is that all there is just make a claim and think so. There is nothing from God?

@divegeester said
Yes yes but answer my question … if you can

On what basis can you judge FMF’s initial salvation many years ago? What gives you that right?

How do you KNOW that he wasn’t saved and has, as you put it, “fallen away”?

Ask until the cows come home I am not going to discuss him with you! You what to talk about your walk with the Lord we can go there!

@kellyjay said
Ask until the cows come home I am not going to discuss him with you! You what to talk about your walk with the Lord we can go there!

You’ve been talking about FMFs lack of salvation for years, as you said to another poster this week.

Why are you suddenly so evasive when asked a direct question about your scriptural basis for judging whether he was saved or not?

@divegeester said
You’ve been talking about FMFs lack of salvation for years, as you said to another poster this week.

Why are you suddenly so evasive when asked a direct question about your scriptural basis for judging whether he was saved or not?

I am talking to him, respect that! I don’t need to clarify anything he and talk about to you. You want to justify to everyone your salvation, can you?

@kellyjay said
I am talking to him, respect that! I don’t need to clarify anything he and talk about to you. You want to justify to everyone your salvation, can you?

Don’t change the subject, just face up to my question.

How can you personally scripturally justify insisting that FMF was never saved?

How!?

@divegeester said
Don’t change the subject, just face up to my question.

How can you personally scripturally justify insisting that FMF was never saved?

How!?

Zzz

Read the Bible and take him at his word.

@kellyjay said
So what? Never denied that, I take you at your word, is that all there is just make a claim and think so. There is nothing from God?

I have never claimed faith in God is "nothing" or that believers get "nothing" from their faith in God.

@fmf said
I have never claimed faith in God is "nothing" or that believes get "nothing" from their faith in God.

Are you not claiming it's all between our ears, making it all about what we think, what we believe with no consideration of God entering into the human experience through those that put their faith in His grace and mercy? If it is just a subjective belief, nothing more, then it is all nothing of eternal value and only some mental exercise that some choose and others do not; you cannot have it both ways, though you may want to.

As I pointed out to you if God isn't real, it is not different than a self-help experience, believing and having warm and fuzzy thoughts someone loves you, a fake someone, but you can feel good about that in your life that when you die, you go to the void.

@kellyjay said
Are you not claiming it's all between our ears, making it all about what we think, what we believe with no consideration of God entering into the human experience through those that put their faith in His grace and mercy?

Yes. I am an agnostic atheist. I believe these claims I have made are true for you and true for me. Your faith is a function of cognition.

@kellyjay said
If it is just a subjective belief, nothing more, then it is all nothing of eternal value and only some mental exercise that some choose and others do not; you cannot have it both ways, though you may want to.

I am not having it "both ways". I fully understand that you believe your faith has some "eternal value". And as for subjective beliefs, all we are doing here is sharing them, you and me both.

@kellyjay said
As I pointed out to you if God isn't real, it is not different than a self-help experience, believing and having warm and fuzzy thoughts someone loves you, a fake someone, but you can feel good about that in your life that when you die, you go to the void.

I haven't said that my or your faith in God is not real. Nor have I described your faith [or mine in the past] as "warm and fuzzy thoughts", but I see what you're trying to do by being facetious and disingenuous.

And yes, I do believe you and I will both die one day and that will be the end [and we will "go" nowhere, not even to something called "the void"].

At that point, the substance, inspiration, encouragement and purpose of your faith will end. It will end just as your cognition and consciousness end. I think for you to liken 'living your faith' to a mere "self-help experience" sells it short.

None of this means that I think your faith pertains to beliefs and aspirations that feel 100% real to you and, for all intents and purposes, shape the psychological reality in which you live your life.

But, do I think that your faith is instrumental in making you immortal? No.

@fmf said
I am not having it "both ways". I fully understand that you believe your faith has some "eternal value". And as for subjective beliefs, all we are doing here is sharing them, you and me both.

Is God a reality? I don't care what you think or believe; that is not the important part. The only part of this that ends the dispute and nothing else matters, your experience is as you have said, you once thought it was true; now, nothing changes for you; it was just like getting a math problem right you once thought wrong.

God is real, so that was never an experience with God; only a mental exercise anyone can have God is not required, just an active imagination. You can say I believe no big deal, and that too I will agree with because the ONLY important part of this is God real, does He enter into the lives that turn to Him all of their hearts. You can say you did that, but you would be once again calling God a liar and fraud because had you, there would have been no denying experience.

@kellyjay said
Is God a reality?

Hello KellyJay. My name is FMF. Pleased to meet you. I am an agnostic atheist.

@kellyjay said
The only part of this that ends the dispute and nothing else matters, your experience is as you have said, you once thought it was true; now, nothing changes for you; it was just like getting a math problem right you once thought wrong.

Losing faith is "just like getting a math problem right you once thought wrong"??

@kellyjay said
God is real, so that was never an experience with God; only a mental exercise anyone can have God is not required, just an active imagination.

Yes, I know you believe God is real. And yes your faith is a function of cognition.