Do atheists "sugarcoat" the human condition?

@moonbus said
Do you think man is going to be made sinless and perfect (through salvation)?

God's not entirely stupid.

Humans who pass the tests will have a millennium to try it on, see if it fits. I guarantee there will be some who will still fail and be fooled again.

@rajk999 said
Some examples of a blessed state according to Jesus -

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they sha ...[text shortened]... all be called the children of God.
(Matthew 5:3-9 KJV)

You are million miles away from that.

Beam, eye, mote, brother... you know.

@suzianne said
God's not entirely stupid.

Humans who pass the tests will have a millennium to try it on, see if it fits. I guarantee there will be some who will still fail and be fooled again.

More church nonsense.

@suzianne said
Beam, eye, mote, brother... you know.

You enjoy making a fool of yourself.
You have much in common with that Smith woman.

@moonbus said
Do you think man is going to be made sinless and perfect (through salvation)?

Think for a moment about who is doing what; God, who can spend an eternity pondering every minuscule thing, in every place, all at once, in every moment throughout all time, is doing something with man, who He made in God's image.

@kellyjay said
Is ignorance a blessed state?

There are different kinds of ignorance.

Not being distracted by things which do not lead to the blessed state is a good kind of ignorance, provided this is a conscious decision for the right reason. Knowing how the universe began (or did not have a beginning) belongs to the class of knowledge which merely distracts the mind. This knowledge is of no practical use whatsoever, and does not lead to the blessed state.

Whereas ignorance of the causes of suffering is a kind of ignorance which leads only to more suffering.

There is also a kind of knowledge which does not lead to the blessed state: erudite stupidity. We see rather a lot of that here at SF: people who can quote miles and miles of Scripture but are light years away from the blessed state.

@kellyjay said
Think for a moment about who is doing what; God, who can spend an eternity pondering every minuscule thing, in every place, all at once, in every moment throughout all time, is doing something with man, who He made in God's image.

God is doing something with man? What nonsense. God could have made man perfect from the start. Why the rigmarole? Why waste so many souls who won’t make it but were condemned to an eternal lake of fire? Makes no sense.

@rajk999 said
More church nonsense.

Try reading more than Matthew, for a change.

@rajk999 said
You enjoy making a fool of yourself.
You have much in common with that Smith woman.

"That Smith woman?"


And by the way, what do the sexists inherit? Are they blessed?

@suzianne said
God's not entirely stupid.

Humans who pass the tests will have a millennium to try it on, see if it fits. I guarantee there will be some who will still fail and be fooled again.

It is not that I think God is stupid. What I think is that crucial bits of the story about God's plan for humanity are incoherent.

For example, KellyJay said that he hopes to be given an incorruptible body. Why didn't God give Adam and Eve incorruptible bodies right from the start? There would have been no temptation, no fall from grace, they would still be in the Garden in the blessed state of ignorance of good and evil. Why the rigmarole? Why give Adam and Eve corruptible bodies, just so they would fall from grace, sire humanity in more and more corruptible bodies, produce thousands of years of corruption (Spanish Inquisition, pogroms, crusades, holocaust, etc. etc.) and billions of souls damned to an eternal lake of fire, just so a few of the 'elect' (who pass the test) can be raptured and given incorruptible bodies later on? Where's the sense in that? Why the rigmarole? Either give Adam and Eve incorruptible bodies right away, or forget the whole damnation scheme.

This is essentially the same issue as why God put a snake in the Garden. And I don't want to quibble over whether it was a metaphorical snake or a real literal talking snake. God gives man freewill and then forbids him to use it and then damns all his descendants to a lake of fire forever and ever. It just doesn't make sense to me.

@moonbus said
There are different kinds of ignorance.

Not being distracted by things which do not lead to the blessed state is a good kind of ignorance, provided this is a conscious decision for the right reason. Knowing how the universe began (or did not have a beginning) belongs to the class of knowledge which merely distracts the mind. This knowledge is of no practical use whatsoeve ...[text shortened]... : people who can quote miles and miles of Scripture but are light years away from the blessed state.

Not looking for a root cause of all issues is a willingness to live with them without ever being able to correct and solve them. We are flawed; why? The happiness over truth question? I agree that many people can quote scripture and are not happy people; being able to quote scripture can be done by anyone (Satan does it), but that is not the same thing as having Christ in your life. In addition to that, having Christ in your life guarantees that you will have more issues than not, but the promise He gives is that He will never leave or forsake us. With Him, all the world's issues, all the riches of the world become just something we go through, the good and evil, we can gain the world and lose our souls. We can suffer significant losses and still know the love of God, with His peace that passes all understanding.

@moonbus said
God is doing something with man? What nonsense. God could have made man perfect from the start. Why the rigmarole? Why waste so many souls who won’t make it but were condemned to an eternal lake of fire? Makes no sense.

If God wanted someone in His image that could be a part of a Kingdom where love is the moral norm, that means love has to be authentic. Being able to say yes to love, one has to be able to say no! Being able to say yes and saying and living it out will occur, and the fruit of that choice will carry us with Him through all the hardships and joy in this world. Being able to say no means we can take our lives and twist them into whatever else we want them to be. We are simply growing up together, the weeds and the wheat parable, and at the right time, there will be a harvest; the weeds will be gathered up and cast into the fire; they will not go forward into the eternal Kingdom; they will have made their choices.

@kellyjay said
If God wanted someone in His image that could be a part of a Kingdom where love is the moral norm, that means love has to be authentic. Being able to say yes to love, one has to be able to say no! Being able to say yes and saying and living it out will occur, and the fruit of that choice will carry us with Him through all the hardships and joy in this world. Being able to sa ...[text shortened]... into the fire; they will not go forward into the eternal Kingdom; they will have made their choices.

"Being able to say yes to love, one has to be able to say no!"

You recently quoted Paul, that man sees the good but is unable to do it. You twist and turn and contort meanings, and the story still does not make sense. Do you see now why I can't buy into this mythology? There is too much incoherence for me to believe it. To be able to do X, one must be able to do not-X also. You affirm this in one sentence and deny it in the next.

@moonbus said
"Being able to say yes to love, one has to be able to say no!"

You recently quoted Paul, that man sees the good but is unable to do it. You twist and turn and contort meanings, and the story still does not make sense. Do you see now why I can't buy into this mythology? There is too much incoherence for me to believe it. To be able to do X, one must be able to do not-X also. You affirm this in one sentence and deny it in the next.

What is authentic, someone who has no choice but one who not only makes it but does so with a cost to themselves? Anyone can make a marriage vow to be faithful unto the end, but if that faithfulness only lasts until someone else comes around, what is real? In Isaiah, I believe God said, "If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all.’” If pleasures can not turn us, even pain and suffering all of that draw us close to the One who made us, then this world and all that is in it next to Him is nothing of lasting value compared to the love we find in Christ.

@moonbus said
"Being able to say yes to love, one has to be able to say no!"

You recently quoted Paul, that man sees the good but is unable to do it. You twist and turn and contort meanings, and the story still does not make sense. Do you see now why I can't buy into this mythology? There is too much incoherence for me to believe it. To be able to do X, one must be able to do not-X also. You affirm this in one sentence and deny it in the next.

Life is complex. Many things that seem right to us are not.