Do you know Islam?

Originally posted by ahosyney
That is good thing , I did the same I tried to read in Bible too.

What did you read in Quran and what do you think after you read. What translation did you use.

Regards

I have the translation of N.J. Dawood published by Penguin Books.

Now I have to qualify my answer about what I think.

There are a few classes of things in the Koran of which I have thought.

1.) There are the things which someone showed me were there which I read long ago. Some of these I cannot find myself any longer. So I would like to get some kind of concordance so I could find them.

2.) Then there are the things which I read and underlined myself.


My overall impression so far is that the Koran is written in such a way as to give the reader a feeling that someone else was privy to the happenings in the Bible. As if there was another witness to the things described in the Bible. And now this person who was also in on certain events and conversations is going to fill in additional details that were not in the Bible.

So many many references are there to events in the Bible. Then additional details are added which subtly change the focus of the accounts.

It does this addition of details again and again to gain the reader's confidence that the author knows something of the Bible. But the changes and additions accumulate to eventually put forth a whole different teaching.

Then there are flat out contradictions of the New Testament. Then there are denials of what the New Testament plainly teaches.

I also think that some of the descriptions of heaven seem like extensions of the fleshly enjoyment of the fallen sinful life. But these quotations are of the class that I need help to find again.

I don't think that the book is a genuine prophecy. I am sorry to say this. But I think that because it does contain some true things it does capture the attention of a considerable portion of humanity. For example, that there is one God. That God is the Creator, these things are universal truths. To that extent some portion of human beings will be impressed with them.

That there are some true statements about God which are generally true in the Koran, it will always capture the attention of people.

Originally posted by jaywill
I have the translation of N.J. Dawood published by Penguin Books.

Now I have to qualify my answer about what I think.

There are a few classes of things in the Koran of which I have thought.

1.) There are the things which someone showed me were there which I read long ago. Some of these I cannot find myself any longer. So I would like to get some ...[text shortened]... out God which are generally true in the Koran, it will always capture the attention of people.

For the first part of your answer I will be happy to help you to find what you want and to assest you as much as I can. I'm not that perfect but I can get help.

For the second part , it is very important and very interesting.

You said it looks like some one that knows the story and he witness what happned in the Bible. Who do you think this someone?


The second thing Quran not only talking about facts or events in the Bible, there are a lot and a lot that is not mentioned and a lot of detailes about dialy human life that doesn't exist in the bible.

It seams that when you read the quran you tried to compare to what you know. So you did take care only about what know but there are many parts deals with things and acts that has nothing to do with Bible.

You say it contain some true things like there is One GOD, but in fact the whole book from the begining to the End focus in this fact. When the book taked about events and facts it do so to establish the fact that there is only one GOD the deserve to be worshiped. Because that what it all about. To belive that there is only one GOD and to establish the way humen should worship him.

There is another important point, the most important chalange and interesting fact about Quran that it was written on Arabic and may be the translation you read doesn't reflect all the meanings.

Also Islamic Law is not only inherited from Quran, but also from the Prophet Muhammed himself. So reading Quran alone is not enough to understand the spirit of Islam.

Again I will be happy to help if you have more questions about Quran and Islam

Originally posted by ahosyney
There is a big difference between disagree in opinions and insulting people.
Other people disagree with muslims that is a fact. But when other people come to insult muslims' values that is another story.
Give an example that doesn't include insulting. If you have no problem to insult your GOD but muslims are not.
you already disagree with muslims, and we ...[text shortened]... ished from God.
But will you let muslims do that. Will you accept the truth if you find it.

I have friends who are muslims and I realise that not all muslims are alike. However I do feel that those muslims who become violent when they feel that some foreigner has insulted them or thier God are wrong. There are hundreds of examples of muslims insulting other people. (Who hasnt insulted Bush at least once). They also tend to commit acts of violence against inoccents which had nothing to do with the insult in question.
The interesting thing about both these act of violence and terrorism in general are that they never seem to achieve the stated goals. 9/11 for example hurt the muslim world and served to strengthen the US government and Bush in particular. Also instead of gaining support for the 'cause' (whatever that was), it actually lost them some support. I suspect that since 9/11 the majority of the worlds population now dislikes both the US government and al-Qaeda more than before 9/11 and that dislike tends to overflow to include both americans in general and muslims in general even though the majority of both had nothing to do with any of it.

Originally posted by ahosyney
HI

Do you know Islam?

If yes, what do you know about it.

If not, do you want to know.

I have studied Isam extensively.

I would like to know from you if you can be absolutley sure about your salvation, as a Muslim?

There is a lot more that I can go into, but this should suffice for now.

Originally posted by ahosyney
For the first part of your answer I will be happy to help you to find what you want and to assest you as much as I can. I'm not that perfect but I can get help.

For the second part , it is very important and very interesting.

You said it looks like some one that knows the story and he witness what happned in the Bible. Who do you think this someone?
...[text shortened]... t of Islam.

Again I will be happy to help if you have more questions about Quran and Islam

The Quaran was written by one man, Muhammad, is that correct?

How do you know that Muhammad was the true prophet of God, other than the fact that he claimed it?

Did he do any miracles to establish the fact that he was sent of God?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I have friends who are muslims and I realise that not all muslims are alike. However I do feel that those muslims who become violent when they feel that some foreigner has insulted them or thier God are wrong. There are hundreds of examples of muslims insulting other people. (Who hasnt insulted Bush at least once). They also tend to commit acts of violenc ...[text shortened]... eral and muslims in general even though the majority of both had nothing to do with any of it.

Hi

I agree with in many parts and disagree in some parts.

1) I agree with you that insulting in general is not a good thing and Islam do prohibit that.

2) I agree with you that violence is not a good thing and also Islam prohibit that too. Islam only allow that for self defence and with a strickted requlations.

3) I agree with that generlization is not good, and if some muslims (if they really are) did some stubid thing that doesn't mean that all muslims like that. If we follow the same rule violence is not only from muslims it is common for all religions and in every country and relating it to Islam is an Act of media.

4) I agree with you that muslims are hurted a lot after 9/11 with something they has nothing to with.

5) I also agree with you al-Qaeda is more hated like Amirica after 9/11, but does al-Qaeda represent muslims.

What I don't agree with you in is to compare insulting Bush with Insulting GOD or the Prophet. Do you think it is the same. Bush is a person and after few years he will have no weight in the world (Except of course his two great wars in Iraq and Afghanestan). But insulting GOD is not comparible.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Hi

I agree with in many parts and disagree in some parts.

1) I agree with you that insulting in general is not a good thing and Islam do prohibit that.

2) I agree with you that violence is not a good thing and also Islam prohibit that too. Islam only allow that for self defence and with a strickted requlations.

3) I agree with that generlizati ...[text shortened]... pt of course his two great wars in Iraq and Afghanestan). But insulting GOD is not comparible.

5) I also agree with you al-Qaeda is more hated like Amirica after 9/11, but does al-Qaeda represent muslims.

Does the Quaran not state that if you kill the infidel by means of Jihad,it is the best chance you will have of salvation?

Originally posted by ahosyney
For the first part of your answer I will be happy to help you to find what you want and to assest you as much as I can. I'm not that perfect but I can get help.

For the second part , it is very important and very interesting.

You said it looks like some one that knows the story and he witness what happned in the Bible. Who do you think this someone?
t of Islam.

Again I will be happy to help if you have more questions about Quran and Islam

I didn't say that there is not other subject material in the Quran except references to the Bible. I know that other things are mentioned. I am commenting on those sections which seem to intersect with the Bible.

I have had extensive debates on Moslem websites. Most of these were in the nature of defending the Christian gospel against wrong statments by Moslems concerning it.

I think that the concept of worship of God in the Quran is a step back. It does not come up to the level of the revelation of the New Testament of worship of God - which is really to abide in God and have God abide in us as the processed and all-inclusive Spirit of the incarnated God-man Christ Jesus.

The Quran is a step back from abiding in God as a sphere and realm of the living Person indwelling the believer. It represents a step back to law keeping in the style of Mosiac covenant.

You don't have God mingled with man in the Quran. To Moslems that God would live in man is nonsense and blasphemy. The thought of God having a Son is out. God having sons of God is out in Islam.

Even that Christ is God incarnate is out in Islam. You have another Moses figure as a law giver. That is Mohammed. And you have another law of Moses style legal code - the Quran.

You do not have Christ as the life giving Spirit to enter into man's being to live in us. "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

You have not Three-One God as the Triune God. This is perplexing and blaphemous to Islam. But the Christian believes the revelation of the Bible that the Father is God, the Son is God , and the Spirit is God.

The Quran knows nothing of God and man united as one entity. This is terrible to the Moslem.

So the Quran's concept of salvation is not so extensive as to bring man and God together as a branch is grafted into a tree - sharing two lives mingled together. There is no interweaving of the divine with the human.

And I don't think there is any assurance of eternal salvation. One hopes that if he does well he will be accepted. In Christ there is the assurance of eternal salvation.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The Quaran was written by one man, Muhammad, is that correct?

How do you know that Muhammad was the true prophet of God, other than the fact that he claimed it?

Did he do any miracles to establish the fact that he was sent of God?

Ok

You raised two points:

1. You said Quran is Written by Prophet Muhammed , but that is not true, it is written by GOD and the words inside are the words of GOD as we belive for two reasons:
a) Prophet Muhammed didn't know how to read or write. And there are some facts in the Quran that he couldn't know unless it was inspired by GOD.
b) The Quran itself is written in a way that has no like (of course that fact cannot be felt unless you read it in Arabic) and that was the main miracle of the Quran. I can give you a lot of examples but later on aftere we finish our discussion.

2. Secondly you asked if you belive that the prophet is really prophet.

Yes I do, and you said if has miracles , I say yes he has.

He has many miracles , but I don't only belive in him because of his miracles, the main thing make me belive in him is as follows:

1. What he asked me to do doesn't differ from the other prophets and messangers , that there is only one GOD who is the creator of the univers and that all the human life in his hands.

2. He give us regulation and rules that if we follow we will have a perfect life. Here I'm talking about the life that all human care about ,and belive in , the earth life. These regulation are perfect and act togather in a way that no human can do, that make me belive that they are given to us by GOD.

3. He encourage scince and reading. The first thing inspired to him by GOD is to read . He always asked to use our mind and all his regulation asks to used the mind and to think about the world around us. His regulations respects me as a human with mind.

4. He established a nation that lived for one and half century now and it is still a life. When I talk about a nation , I don't mean a country or state. I'm talking about an entity that exists the same as he created it and it didn't change or modifies (I'm talking about his requlation and rules) and they still fit perfectly with the changes in the world while other religions are left behind because their people find it doesn't fit with new life.

5. And finally (although you may not belive in that), he gave us the way to the after life and be in heaven in the judging day. He told us how to worship our GOD in the way he want and how to gain forgivness if we make a sin.

In summary he gave me my life , that is why I belive in him.

But if you need mircles to belive, they do exist and there are many of them found in Islamic books and they are guranteed to be true because every thing in islamic religion is will documented from the first one who see, hear of witness to today. If the link is broken so it is not taken into account.

I can tell you these mircles if you want. But do you think you need that. As I said before one of the most important miricles is the Quran it self.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I have studied Isam extensively.

I would like to know from you if you can be absolutley sure about your salvation, as a Muslim?

There is a lot more that I can go into, but this should suffice for now.

As a muslim I belive that if I belive in GOD as the only GOD
if I belive that he is the only one that deserve worship
I belive in all his messangers and all his angles.

If I belive in his word (The Quran and the True Bible)

If do prayer, do fasting and charity .
If I do pilgrimage

If I do no wrong , or If I do wrong but I ask forgivness

That all gurntee me the heaven

It is simple , what do you think

Originally posted by ahosyney
Ok

You raised two points:

1. You said Quran is Written by Prophet Muhammed , but that is not true, it is written by GOD and the words inside are the words of GOD as we belive for two reasons:
a) Prophet Muhammed didn't know how to read or write. And there are some facts in the Quran that he couldn't know unless it was inspired by GOD.
b) The Quran ...[text shortened]... u need that. As I said before one of the most important miricles is the Quran it self.

There is much that is a preservative of society in the Quran. Islam as a typical religion does have that good aspect of it. That is it is a break system keeping society from plunging into moral chaos.

I realize the this would not be true of the fanatical branches of extreme obsession. But that would also be true of obessisive extreme Christianity which has many evils.

But there is much that is good and honorable in the Moslem faith which will prevent society from total degradation. Unfortunetly, it is ultimately opposed to the revelation of Christ to the uttermost.

So I cannot accept it as a true belief about God and Christ.

Originally posted by jaywill
I didn't say that there is not other subject material in the Quran except references to the Bible. I know that other things are mentioned. I am commenting on those sections which seem to intersect with the Bible.

I have had extensive debates on Moslem websites. Most of these were in the nature of defending the Christian gospel against wrong statments by ...[text shortened]... he does well he will be accepted. In Christ there is the assurance of eternal salvation.

Hi

What you are talking about is the main different between Islam and Christianity. We belive as the old statement do that there is only on GOD. And he has no sons. He is one and not many. And he is the only one who deserv the worship. This belive totaly agrees with the old statement and the new statement too.

The salvation in islam is not the same as christianity , but it agreas with the old and new statement too. If you ask forgivness from GOD you will be forgiven and you should belive.

If you want to talk about the three in one belive in Christianity I can talk with you a little but not that much.

That is the mind boggling thing. Mohammed is a good preacher who didn't practise what he preached. Like I said, he preached to be kind to others etc, and yet the next thing you know, he led his people to war (Jihad). He preached to use the brain, presumably to enrich one's knowledge, yet he himself doesn't know how to read and write. He is only human after all. He liked women, so muslims are allowed to have up to 4 wives. Brilliant!

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]5) I also agree with you al-Qaeda is more hated like Amirica after 9/11, but does al-Qaeda represent muslims.

Does the Quaran not state that if you kill the infidel by means of Jihad,it is the best chance you will have of salvation?[/b]

Ok

the Quran say that you have to spread the message of GOD to all the people in the world.


The quran say show the others the way in a good method.

The quran say if you tell someone the GOD message and he agree with you , you don't have any hand on him and you cann't heart him.

The quran say there is not obligation in religion.

The quran say if no one fight you you can't fight them

The only case when muslim must fight when they are attacked

The Quran say if they fight you then fight

And that is the Jihad

That is what Quran say ,

Originally posted by ckoh1965
That is the mind boggling thing. Mohammed is a good preacher who didn't practise what he preached. Like I said, he preached to be kind to others etc, and yet the next thing you know, he led his people to war (Jihad). He preached to use the brain, presumably to enrich one's knowledge, yet he himself doesn't know how to read and write. He is only human after all. He liked women, so muslims are allowed to have up to 4 wives. Brilliant!

That is the two points that every one want to attack Islam do:

1) Jihad: If you read the Quran you will find the following:
Ok

the Quran say that you have to spread the message of GOD to all the people in the world.


The quran say show the others the way in a good method.

The quran say if you tell someone the GOD message and he agree with you , you don't have any hand on him and you cann't heart him.

The quran say there is not obligation in religion.

The quran say if no one fight you you can't fight them

The only case when muslim must fight when they are attacked

The Quran say if they fight you then fight

And that is the Jihad

That is what Quran say .


The main idea is to spread the message to every one because it is the true one.

2) The second point is women: I can talk with you about it and I have the answer , but do you really want to hear it.

You have a bad idea about islam , and I try to give another idea. I hope I can success to do it .