Do you know Islam?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I was merely pointing out that your claim that an insult to something you believe in is worse than an insult to something someone else believe in is not a valid claim. For example, by saying that God exists, you are insulting my inteligence. You want people to get to know Islam but I doubt that you have made an effort to get to know thier religions or bel ...[text shortened]... nks that violence against innocent people is justified when somebody else insults thier beliefs.

1) Will muslim say no to you when you discuss their belives with them? If you asked me to prove faight will tell you no? Islam is not mine and I must tell the message for evey one. No muslim that is real muslim will refuse to discuss these issuse with you if he has the ability to do that. But not beliving in my belive doesn't give you the right to insulte my belives....!!!!

2) You asked me a questions about what I belive in, and I answered you about what I belive, why do that insulte you?!!!!!

If you will take is as insultance why do you ask me about my belive.

3) I read a lot about christianity and Judism but I found in them worse than what you say it exit in my religon , like the instigate vilonce againest the enimies of GOD and I found out that they don't respect my mind and want me to belive in unlogical things (Will you consider that insultance). I also read about other religos and I found that they all has the same basic problems. And I also talke with no belivers of any religon. Comparing what I know I found that Islam is the perfect solution to human life. I did that because I wanted to find the truth and I found it. You may not agree with me but I can prove it to you as much as I can.

Regards

Originally posted by jaywill
There is much that is a preservative of society in the Quran. Islam as a typical religion does have that good aspect of it. That is it is a break system keeping society from plunging into moral chaos.

I realize the this would not be true of the fanatical branches of extreme obsession. But that would also be true of obessisive extreme Christianity which h ...[text shortened]... n of Christ to the uttermost.

So I cannot accept it as a true belief about God and Christ.

thank you for realising that islam has a positive effect on the human society which is what GOD wants people to be.good , GOD fearing and helpful to each other how ever my friend islam doesnot contradict to what jesus pbuh preached it is worth noting that the word islam means to submit your will to that of your creator and do what pleases him and stay away from what nagers him in that sense you are a muslim because you strive to do what the creator asked you to do

right?

now if you look at the scripture you will find out that jesus always did what pleases GOD as in john 8:29 and islam calls all mankind to worship on GOD and know him same as jesus pbuh called people to belive in one GOD as in john 17:3 there is nothing that jesus pbuh called for as far as doctrine is concerned that is different from what prophet mohammed pbuh have taught

obey one GOD
please one GOD
worship on GOD
take no partners along side GOD
thats all
thats what ll the messangers have come to tell humanity to guide them back to the one true go
dont you agree?

What's new/insightful/interesting about "obey one GOD
please one GOD
worship on GOD
take no partners along side GOD
thats all
thats what ll the messangers have come to tell humanity to guide them back to the one ..." ?

Why do you think your particular beliefs are better than anyone else's? Jews and Christians aren't too keen on polytheism either, in case you hadn't noticed. So what are you bringing to the table?

Originally posted by ahosyney
But not beliving in my belive doesn't give you the right to insulte my belives....!!!!

If I tell you I feel your belief in an unseen creator is unfounded and lacks evidence, would you consider that insulting? If I say to you that any proof of God's existence that you present is filled with logical fallacies and a priori assumptions, am I being insulting to your beliefs?

Originally posted by David C
If I tell you I feel your belief in an unseen creator is unfounded and lacks evidence, would you consider that insulting? If I say to you that any proof of God's existence that you present is filled with logical fallacies and a priori assumptions, am I being insulting to your beliefs?

No , but when you do Cartons that show me like a stupid that is insulting

There is a big difference between discussing and showing evidince and insulting.

Originally posted by ahosyney
No , but when you do Cartons that show me like a stupid that is insulting

There is a big difference between discussing and showing evidince and insulting.

I disagree with Bosse- those cartoons were not drawn up in order to ridicule. They were political satire. Just not very good political satire.

Still, freedom of expression and satire are two important traditions in the West, and I consider them positive things. Would that your country (Egypt) might adopt the former value and develop the latter practice, rather than sliding into the abyss of fundamentalism.

Originally posted by ahosyney
1. islam is take from the arabic word salam = peace
2. Why do you think they hate Amirica

I thought Islam came from the word submission?

Originally posted by whodey
I thought Islam came from the word submission?

It does. But Arabic, like Hebrew, is a language based on a root system: words with the same root letters are related in meaning, and words are created by manipulating the root letters—rearranging them adding other letters, etc.

In this case, the root letters are S-L-M. Salaam means peace (and, if Arabic is like its sister language in this regard, it also means well-being, harmony, etc.). Islam, then, means surrender or submission (to God) in peace and well-being.

Originally posted by sjeg
I disagree with Bosse- those cartoons were not drawn up in order to ridicule. They were political satire. Just not very good political satire.

Mockery is a function of satire which the cartoons achieved quite successfully. I don't know if satire is an Islamic literary genre. (Borges' story "Averroes Search" (in which Averroes haplessly attempts to comprehend the meaning of tragedy) sheds unexpected light on this issue).


satire

Artistic form in which human or individual vices, folly, abuses, or shortcomings are held up to censure by means of ridicule, derision, burlesque, irony, or other methods, sometimes with an intent to bring about improvement. Literature and drama are its chief vehicles, but it is also found in such mediums as film, the visual arts (e.g., caricatures), and political cartoons. Though present in Greek literature, notably in the works of Aristophanes, satire generally follows the example of either of two Romans, Horace or Juvenal. To Horace the satirist is an urbane man of the world who sees folly everywhere but is moved to gentle laughter rather than to rage. Juvenal's satirist is an upright man who is horrified and angered by corruption. Their different perspectives produced the subgenres of satire identified by John Dryden as comic satire and tragic satire.

Originally posted by sjeg
I disagree with Bosse- those cartoons were not drawn up in order to ridicule. They were political satire. Just not very good political satire.

Still, freedom of expression and satire are two important traditions in the West, and I consider them positive things. Would that your country (Egypt) might adopt the former value and develop the latter practice, rather than sliding into the abyss of fundamentalism.

I have been told by a muslim friend that muslims do not consider it acceptable to depict Muhammed in any picture and therefore consider any such depiction to be an insult. If the creater of the cartoon knew this then he was certainly showing a lack of respect. All the other newspapers who then followed up by reprinting the cartoon after realising the potential to make money off it, were also showing a lack of respect because they had already been told that the cartoon was considered insulting.
Although everybody cried 'free speach' and tried to protray the west as an open society and the muslim world as very restrictive, the truth is that there is a very high level of sensorship in the US and other western nations.
Also at 9/11, any comments relating to US foreign policy were taken as insults by a large proportion of americans to the degree that donations that were accompanied by a mention of foreign policy were often rejected.

ahosyney, I have a question; you say that muslims want others to be muslims too, but what do you suggest will happen to them if they do not want to be muslim?

Originally posted by ahosyney
Hi again

Take a look at this:

Luka 19-27

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

That is what Juses Said

You are taking this out of context. Jesus was giving them a parable about the ten pounds. This quote was from the man who had servants and who had given those servants money to look after. The gist of the story was that the man who hid the money in fear was rebuked while the others who increased their portion were praised. It is comparable to those gifts given to us to enhance the kingdom of God. Are we to hide our gifts in fear or use them in his service? The enemies are those who hinder or frustrate the kingdom of God and will be dealt with on judgement day. This has nothing to do with Christ or other Christians slaying people.

Originally posted by vistesd
It does. But Arabic, like Hebrew, is a language based on a root system: words with the same root letters are related in meaning, and words are created by manipulating the root letters—rearranging them adding other letters, etc.

In this case, the root letters are S-L-M. Salaam means peace (and, if Arabic is like its sister language in this regard ...[text shortened]... ny, etc.). Islam, then, means surrender or submission (to God) in peace and well-being.

It is then ironic that this submission is called for via violence, no?

Originally posted by whodey
It is then ironic that this submission is called for via violence, no?

Do you think that people are required to be violent to be Muslims? What have you been reading?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Do you think that people are required to be violent to be Muslims? What have you been reading?

I did not mean to imply that ALL were violent, rather, I am speaking to those who are willing to use violence and/or convert with the sword. After all, we see them on the news every day. Those who are not so inclined are never heard from.

Edit: I thought Mohammad converted with the sword? If so, then all who follow him are thus inabled to as well. Those who follow after Christ are not afforded such luxuaries due to the fact that Christ never converted with the sword. In fact, his disciple Peter raised a sword in Christ's defense and he was rebuked by Christ even though they were taking him away to his death. I think we can all agree that Christ has thus taken the moral high road over that of Mohammad. God has given us free will, who is man to take it from him?