Originally posted by josephw1. Man is not born with spirit, just body and soul life
I thought the video was succinct enough. If it told any half truths I didn't see any. It was a simplified explanation of something. What was wrong with it? Was there something left out?
2. God did not become a man.
Jesus is the son of God, not God. Man is born body and soul and when he dies, both die. The soul does not live on. That is Greek mythology that crept into the church by compromise.
The only people in the old testament with spirit "upon" them was only because God conditionally gave it to them. In the New Testament people born again receive holy spirit in them by seed permanently.
Other than that the video was great.
Originally posted by checkbaiterWhat do you think of people who must list every single point upon with which they disagree?
1. Man is not born with spirit, just body and soul life
2. God did not become a man.
Jesus is the son of God, not God. Man is born body and soul and when he dies, both die. The soul does not live on. That is Greek mythology that crept into the church by compromise.
The only people in the old testament with spirit "upon" them was only because God condi ...[text shortened]... orn again receive holy spirit in them by seed permanently.
Other than that the video was great.
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Originally posted by checkbaiter
1. Man is not born with spirit, just body and soul life
But the Old Testament says that there IS ... a spirit in man. These are surely men who have been born with a human spirit.
" But there is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding." (Job 32:8)
Are you saying that in born men there is NOT a spirit in man ?
Judging from Zechariah 12:1 the human spirit in man is a fundamental as the earth he stands on and the heavens stretched out over his head.
" The burden of the word of Jehovah concerning Israel, Thus declares Jehovah, who stretches forth the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him." (Zech 12:1)
I have to believe that created man is as much born with a spirit in him as he is born upon the earth underneath him and born with the heavens stretched out overhead.
If King Sihon was not born with a human spirit how did God harden it ?
" But Sihon the king of Heshbon would not let us pass through his land, for Jehovah your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate ... " (Deut. 2:30a)
If Nebuchadnezzar was a man born without a human spirit how did his spirit become arrogant ?
" But when his heart was lifted up and his spirit became so arrogant that he conducted himself in pride, he was deposed from his royal throne, and his glory was taken away from him." (Daniel 5:20)
How could such things be said about Sihon and Nebuchadnezzar if they were not born with a human spirit ?
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Originally posted by sonship
1. Man is not born with spirit, just body and soul life
But the Old Testament says that there IS ... a spirit in man. These are surely men who have been born with a human spirit.[b] " But there is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding." (Job 32:8)
Are you saying that in ...[text shortened]... id about Sihon and Nebuchadnezzar if they were not born with a human spirit ?[/b]Here are the different usages of spirit or pneuma....
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/6/Usages-of-Spirit
In particular this...
Some people do not understand the many meanings and applications of “soul” (psuchē) and “spirit” (pneuma) in the Greek language, so they read verses such as James 2:26 and think that there is something they call “the spirit of man” that is part of a person’s natural body. This theology makes the natural man a being with a physical body, an invisible animating force (soul) and an invisible spiritual essence (spirit). However, Genesis is clear that when God created mankind, He made a physical body and then gave it life when He animated it by “soul” (Gen. 2:7; Lev. 17:11). The few times mankind is said to have a “spirit” can all be easily explained when we understand that “soul” is a kind of “spirit.” There is no need to make the natural man a being of body, soul and spirit, and the saved individual a being of body, soul, spirit, and holy spirit. Also, the Hebrew words nephesh (soul) and ruach (spirit) have the same kind of flexibility that the Greek words psuche and pneuma do, so Old Testament verses about soul and spirit can be explained in the same way verses in the New Testament can.
The Hebrew word for “spirit,” ruach, is also used of the natural life of the body (cp. Gen. 6:17; 7:15, 22; Job 12:10; Ps. 104:29; 146:4*; Ecc. 3:19*; Hab. 2:19* (* These could also be “breath”.
Originally posted by checkbaiterThe revelation of the three parts of man is not as clear in the Old Testament as it becomes in the New Testament. As God's economy is gradually unfolded in a progressive manner, so is the tripartite nature of man.
Here are the different usages of spirit or pneuma....
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/6/Usages-of-Spirit
In particular this...
[b]Some people do not understand the many meanings and applications of “soul” (psuchē) and “spirit” (pneuma) in the Greek language, so they read verses such as James 2:26 and think that there is something they ...[text shortened]... , 22; Job 12:10; Ps. 104:29; 146:4*; Ecc. 3:19*; Hab. 2:19* (* These could also be “breath”.[/b]
For instance, there is no argument that Hebrews speaks of the dividing of soul and spirit.
" For the word of God is living and operative and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing to the dividing of soul and spirit ... "( Hebrews 4:12a)
There is no possible argument, I think, that the New Testament speaks of the soul of man distinct from the spirit of man in this passage.
And there is little argument that the Apostle specifies that to be sanctified WHOLLY involves three part - spirit and soul and body.
" And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess .5:23)
While I would concede that in the Old Testament the distinction of soul and spirit may not always be so strongly apparent. In the New Testament, concurrent with the nature of the new covenant the distinction of soul and spirit is stark as seen in this passage.
The conjunction and is used in the same manner as with the Three of the Triune God - "the name of the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit."
Some English paraphrases erroneously render 1 Thess .5:23 as "spirit, soul and body". But the conjunction "AND", as in Matthew 28:19 should be placed twice - between spirit AND soul AND body.
Contrast between spirit and mind is seen in First Corinthian We ascertain that the MIND is a component of the SOUL. So a distinction between the mind and the spirit is also a distinction between the soul and the spirit.
" For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful." (1 Cor. 14:14)
The mind therefore as a part of the soul is distinct from the human spirit.
"What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the mind;
I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing also with the mind." (1 Cor. 14:15)
Here again a distinction is indicated between the mind, a part of the soul, and the human spirit.
Lastly, in this brief replay I spoke of two Old Testament people and their human spirits - Sihon and Nebuchadnezzar. We do see in the Old Testament that the human CONSCIENCE is a function of the human spirit.
So even though the spirit of man is largly damaged and comatose from birth, it does have the function of conscience. And for God to HARDEN the spirit of these earthly rulers must mean that their human conscience, which is a function of the human spirit, was hardened and made obstinate.
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Originally posted by checkbaiter
The Hebrew word for “spirit,” ruach, is also used of the natural life of the body (cp. Gen. 6:17; 7:15, 22; Job 12:10; Ps. 104:29; 146:4*; Ecc. 3:19*; Hab. 2:19* (* These could also be “breath”.
Gen. 6:17 - says God will destroy everything in which was the breath of life.
Gen. 7:17 says all the creatures with Noah on the ark had within them the breath of life.
Gen. 7:22 speaks also of the dying of all creatures who had in their nostrils the breath of life.
Job 12:10 says in the hand of God is the life of living things and the breath of all flesh of man.
Psalm 104:29 says that in the dying of creatures God takes away their breath.
Psalm 146:4 speaking of the dying of man, that his breath goes [away] forth and he returns to the earth.
Ecc. 3:19 says both dying mankind and dying animals have one breath.
Hab. 2:19 says that in the idols of gold and silver there is no breath.
It is true that in these Old Testament passages a distinction between three parts of man cannot be pressed. But in the progressive revelation of both God's new covenant salvation and the parts of man the distinction is clear.
No New Testament passage says that man is born again in his soul.
No New Testament passage says man is born again in his natural man.
But it does say that the human regenerated spirit is born of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6)
If the natural life of man is what is born of the Spirit in John 3:6 then that would not be "born again" That would be the first physical birth is because of the Holy Spirit.
If the natural life of man is what is born from above in john 3 then that would not be being born again. It would instead mean that man's natural birth from his mother's physical womb would be from heaven above and Nicodemus would have nothing to worry about.
In that case his first birth as a natural man would have been all Jesus meant by "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit." We know that this is not the case because a contrast is made throughout that the old man needs a second birth - spiritual in nature not a flesh birth.
" That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (v.6)
In the second birth the human spirit is born of the Holy Spirit which is God.
The human spirit is damaged, comatose, deadened and needs to be enlivened.
The conscience part of the human spirit however does somewhat function in the unbeliever.
" Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again." (John 3:7)
Originally posted by vivify
I've said a lot of horrible things about God. Does God still love me? At what point is it too late for me to still have God's love (while I'm still alive)?
I've said a lot of horrible things about God. Does God still love me? At what point is it too late for me to still have God's love (while I'm still alive)?
I think God still loves you with an unimaginably powerful and eternal love.
But there is something that God will not give up. Even though He so greatly loves us He will not give up His righteousness because of His great love for us.
The dilemma of the Almighty is how can He love us to the uttermost as He does yet still maintain His eternal righteous character. God will not give up His being right and righteous for the sake of His love.
We would say - "Well God, couldn't you just give in and give up your righteousness and overlook my sins SINCE you love me so much ?"
He will save us from His righteous judgment. He will love us forever. But He will do so in a way that no being for eternity will ever be able to say - "God, you relaxed Your righteous nature for the sake of loving your creatures. God You reneged on Your eternal righteous nature in order to skirt around justice and love us. God you loved us but in a way that violated Your own eternal righteous being."
No being will ever be able to charge God with a favoritism that looked the other way tolerating sin in order to love the sinner. He will not save us as "backdoor merchandise". He will not love us at the cost of giving up His own eternal righteous attribute.
This is the essence of Christ on His cross at Calvary. The great love of God for you and the eternal righteousness of God coordinate together for your salvation.
Don't play around with this.
I believe that God loves you. He loves everybody, even tho we sin.
When I saw the name of this thread, this is what came to mind :
'Jesus loves the little children.
All the children of the world.'
We are all sons of christ, right? Then we are God's little children.
Because Jesus IS God, then you can believe that God loves you.
Originally posted by sonshipI have already, and I do all the time. I am thankfull for what I have, and I am trying to read one chapter from proverbs every day of every month.
Nothing wrong .
I was 12 once too.
That is the excellent time, the best time to say [b]"Lord Jesus, I love You."[/b]
And even tho I sin and dishonor God's kingdom because I sin,
God Still Loves Me.