Does God love me?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You mean and make them fit with salvation's guarantee? Yes, it must be difficult for you.

Salvation is guaranteed .. however there are some IFs and some BUTs .. you know .. CONDITIONS.

Here they are again:

Matt 19:17 .. IF thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 8:31 IF ye continue in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:51 .. IF a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 14:15-16 IF ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever
John 15:10 IF ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, IF ye do whatsoever I command you.
Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

If something is important, I would err on the side of caution because I dont like surprises, but thats me.
Maybe you like surprises 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
And you are the judge?
Never said that. Did I? I keep saying that Jesus will do the judging

Why is it then that Paul gives instruction on how to deal with a believer that gets caught up in sin to restore him?
Paul also gives commentary on cases in which a believer cannot be restored. So some can and some cannot... its simple

If suc ...[text shortened]... be honest. I think this bears a closer look. Just sayin'.
Well .. take a closer look 🙂

Oh I will!

Just one question. If it were to be proven to you that your "interpretation" of the passage in Hebrews was wrong, would that effect the way you view eternal security? Would it effect the way you perceive the whole of scripture as I relates to works vs. grace? Would you recant?

I would. Even publicly if I learned what I believe is false.

Originally posted by josephw
Oh I will!

Just one question. If it were to be proven to you that your "interpretation" of the passage in Hebrews was wrong, would that effect the way you view eternal security? Would it effect the way you perceive the whole of scripture as I relates to works vs. grace? Would you recant?

I would. Even publicly if I learned what I believe is false.

Of course. Show me what I believe to be wrong and I will be eternally grateful to you.

Now its not about the passage in Hebrews. Its about all such passages in the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. You have to disprove all these. If it were just one it might be easy to appeal to other passages that appear to contradict but there are many of these like I quoted in Hebrews.

Eternal life is guaranteed for some, not for all.

So bring it on. Maybe you might want to start another thread.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Salvation is guaranteed .. however there are some IFs and some BUTs .. you know .. CONDITIONS.

Here they are again:

[i]Matt 19:17 .. IF thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 8:31 IF ye continue in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:51 .. IF a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 14:15-16 IF ye love me ...[text shortened]... n the side of caution because I dont like surprises, but thats me.
Maybe you like surprises 😀

I think the word "guaranteed" is not the right word. Salvation doesn't come with a guarantee as when buying a new car or something. Guarantees are contingent on an agreement which has stipulations.

Salvation as it relates to God's grace comes with an unconditional promise. "Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ and you will be save". The salvation that the grace of God gives is free of conditions or requirements for obtaining it, and of keeping it.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren, and wants the believer to be insecure in their faith. Some struggle with sin, and to tell them that they can lose their salvation is akin to doing the work of the devil.

Jesus said that many will say to Him, LORD LORD didn't we do this and that in your name, and Jesus will say to them get away from me I never knew you. There are tares amongst the wheat, Jesus knows who they are that are His, and He will lose none of them.

I only know one person that has ever said they were a Christian and then changed his mind. Did he ever really believe? Or did he experience what is described in Hebrews and lost his salvation?

I have no way of knowing that. Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling now. You can use that if you want.

Another good interpretation of Hebrews 4:6....
According to this interpretation, the key word in the passage is if (verse 6). The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away . . .” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ died once for sin (Hebrews 9:28), and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all.

The passage, therefore, presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again). The absurdity of the conclusion points up the impossibility of the original assumption. This reasoning is called reductio ad absurdum, in which a premise is disproved by showing that it logically leads to an absurdity.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html

In other words, a Christian cannot be saved again because he never lost it. It is impossible.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Another good interpretation of Hebrews 4:6....
[b]According to this interpretation, the key word in the passage is if (verse 6). The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away . . .” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ d ...[text shortened]...

In other words, a Christian cannot be saved again because he never lost it. It is impossible.

Hebrews 4:6 ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Hebrews 4:6 ?

My bad...6:4

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Another good interpretation of Hebrews 4:6....
[b]According to this interpretation, the key word in the passage is if (verse 6). The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: “IF a Christian were to fall away . . .” The point being made is that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew salvation. That’s because Christ d ...[text shortened]...

In other words, a Christian cannot be saved again because he never lost it. It is impossible.

This is an example of 'private interpretation', which some like you condemn conveniently.

Proper scriptural interpretation must be based on appealing to other like passages from the writings of Jesus and the Apostles. But you know very well that all these other writers have said the same thing.

Also whether you like what is said or not, is not a just reason to condemn it.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
My bad...6:4

You made me read out the whole of Hebrews 4 looking for the passage .. no probs.

Originally posted by josephw
.. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, and wants the believer to be insecure in their faith. Some struggle with sin, and to tell them that they can lose their salvation is akin to doing the work of the devil.
...

You will need to define what you mean by 'lose their salvation'. I am referring to Christians who are not given eternal life.

So by your definition then Jesus, and all the Apostles is doing the work of the devil, because they all warned that there are conditions to getting eternal life and there are dire consequences for not adhering to these conditions. In fact you probably dont understand what was one of the functions of the Comforter .. it was TO REPROVE THE WORLD OF SIN. The Devil does not do that !! Where you all get your doctrine, I really do not know ...

You bypassed these conditions from Christ which I quoted I guess you dont like the teachings of Jesus. So here is what Paul said - Read the whole story and resist the temptation to focus on the sentence you like. Paul is exhorting the SAINTS to follow good works and righteousness otherwise they will not get into the Kingdom of God.:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 4:30-5:5 KJV)

Note the following:
1.. These are Saints, sealed Christians, who have the Holy Spirit.
2. Nobody - not even saints will enter the Kingdom of God if their actions displease God.

I can similarly quote, Peter, Jude, James and John for you

ALL SAY THE SAME THING.

Originally posted by Rajk999
This is an example of 'private interpretation', which some like you condemn conveniently.

Proper scriptural interpretation must be based on appealing to other like passages from the writings of Jesus and the Apostles. But you know very well that all these other writers have said the same thing.

Also whether you like what is said or not, is not a just reason to condemn it.

I don't "condemn", I am just pointing to how scripture can interpret itself without contradiction.
It is more sensible to see why salvation cannot be lost, because it is what God promises, than to say it is conditional.
I could just turn this around and say you are privately interpreting scripture saying salvation can be lost because of the clear verses that say otherwise.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I don't "condemn", I am just pointing to how scripture can interpret itself without contradiction.
It is more sensible to see why salvation cannot be lost, because it is what God promises, than to say it is conditional.
I could just turn this around and say you are privately interpreting scripture saying salvation can be lost because of the clear verses that say otherwise.

I dont know what you refer to as saved or salvation, as it appears that we used these terms differently. I am speaking of eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

I am using the Bible terminology as far as possible, which says that
- there are conditions for entry into the Kingdom of God.
- there are conditions for getting eternal life.

Please show some clear verses that say:
- there are NO CONDITIONS for entry into eternal life and into the Kingdom of God.

I have quoted Christ and Paul which state plainly that there are.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont know what you refer to as saved or salvation, as it appears that we used these terms differently. I am speaking of eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

I am using the Bible terminology as far as possible, which says that
- there are conditions for entry into the Kingdom of God.
- there are conditions for getting eternal life.

Please show some ...[text shortened]... nd into the Kingdom of God.

I have quoted Christ and Paul which state plainly that there are.

You are saying that God accepts some and not others?
If so I'd agree with you since we know the vast majority of the human race is lost.

It would also mean that not every effort we apply will be accepted by God too if we are
agreement still. That is not saying the door is not open to all, but in the end only a few find
the narrow way.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I dont know what you refer to as saved or salvation, as it appears that we used these terms differently. I am speaking of eternal life in the Kingdom of God.

I am using the Bible terminology as far as possible, which says that
- there are conditions for entry into the Kingdom of God.
- there are conditions for getting eternal life.

Please show some ...[text shortened]... nd into the Kingdom of God.

I have quoted Christ and Paul which state plainly that there are.

If I brought a collection of books together (say, Lord of the Rings, Macbeth, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets) written by different authors over different time periods, and then claimed they were all part of a divinely inspired whole, it would hardly be surprising if Hermione was contradicted by Gandalf.

The fact that bible verses can be cited on both sides of the argument just goes to demonstrate surely that we are just reading the views of different authors?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If I brought a collection of books together (say, Lord of the Rings, Macbeth, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets) written by different authors over different time periods, and then claimed they were all part of a divinely inspired whole, it would hardly be surprising if Hermione was contradicted by Gandalf.

The fact that bible verses can be c ...[text shortened]... rgument just goes to demonstrate surely that we are just reading the views of different authors?

Different views of authors or readers, not the same thing.