27 Feb 12
Originally posted by Proper KnobThere is only one God - some religions have aspects of His nature but miss other bits. It's like tuning into a radio signal - there is one signal but some receivers need re-tuning.
How do you account for the countless people who have no doubt gone through the process you describe and end up with a different God?
27 Feb 12
2 edits
Originally posted by Proper KnobHow do you know they did go through the process as I described it? Many
How do you account for the countless people who have no doubt gone through the process you describe and end up with a different God?
people are busy making up their own ways to God, getting good enough while
God has reached down to man through Jesus Christ. If you want God you do
it on God's terms not man's. Man can do whatever man wants, he can do
whatever seems good to him, or just good enough, as far as man's good is
concern in his own eyes.
Kelly
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by AgergDo you deny that you also (like me) feel that you "know" or feel extremely convinced that I am mistaken in my world view? (As I do in reverse)
[b]Do you deny that your world view has radically different philosophical assumptions and implications about life than mine? (ie we have two different world views)
No - this does not imply the silly assumption that I place no value on my own or others' lives as you previously assert.
Do you deny that you also (like me) feel that you "know" or feel ...[text shortened]... al difference is that my skepticism is unbiased whilst your completely unjustified belief is.
No - buth the crucial difference is that my skepticism is unbiased whilst your completely unjustified belief is.[/b]
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You are naive if you think your skepticism is unbiased in any way. You show your bias by assuming my belief is "completely unjustified". It's based on an assumption that Christians are basically a "bit thick" and only believe in God because of their wishful thinking. This is a convenient cliche for you.
If you believe these things it not only shows your bias but also a lack of understanding of genuine Spirituality in general.
You sound extremely convinced that I am grossly mistaken in my world view , therefore you are proclaiming that you KNOW I am wrong and you are right. Just as I do in reverse.
Your very words show me that you are not coming at this from a neutral position nor are you any less "arrogant" about it than me.
BTW- Why do you feel you have to be-little my position?
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillSo you think someone will benefit from the video? Why?
He's not the only one reading along with the discussion.
I assume this is a typo.
No, it wasn't a typo. I am saying that many theists claim that faith is necessary and solid evidence for God is impossible to obtain.
What evidence would you suggest would cause this kind of strong proof ?
I cannot easily give examples. Something convincing.
I think strong opposers to the spread of the Christian church really should have done all they could to produce solid proof that the man was DEAD.
I am not sure how they could do that.
Saul of Tarsus, for example, should have thought of this as the very first option. "Just go get the body of Jesus, parade it through Jerusalem, and it is all over for the new sect."
Give me a timeline. When was Saul of Tarsus in relation to Jesus' supposed death?
Why do you think such a dedicated opposer did not do this ?
I think it was impractical. I am not even convinced that a man named Jesus even existed, let alone a body.
I expect that any argument could be countered by an at least plausible counter argument.
Odd then that theists find it so hard to find plausible counter arguments and instead tend to engage in deliberate deception, dodging, avoidance etc.
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by twhitehead"No, it wasn't a typo. I am saying that many theists claim that faith is necessary and solid evidence for God is impossible to obtain."
So you think someone will benefit from the video? Why?
[b]I assume this is a typo.
No, it wasn't a typo. I am saying that many theists claim that faith is necessary and solid evidence for God is impossible to obtain.
What evidence would you suggest would cause this kind of strong proof ?
I cannot easily give examples. Something convinci ...[text shortened]... ounter arguments and instead tend to engage in deliberate deception, dodging, avoidance etc.[/b]
We all share the same evidence, some of us think it means something different
than others do.
Kelly
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by KellyJayBut do you think there is concrete evidence for the existence of God, or Jesus? Or do you think that faith is necessary? Why do you think God did not make concrete evidence available to everyone?
We all share the same evidence, some of us think it means something different than others do.
27 Feb 12
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhy are you so averse to investing said 0.01% into the experiment? I am not asking you to believe in God before you start nor are you being asked to do anything disingenuous. Any hypothesis starts with an acceptance that the hypothesis might be correct. This is all that is asked of you.
The best way to respond to what you have said is to draw attention to what I said before.....
If you are 100% sure that God does not exist then don't bother with any of this. But if you are interested at all that would suggest that you are only 99.9% or less sure that God does not exist. If that is the case then all the experiment asks of you is cted to do something that you are obviously not being asked. It's a convenient strawman IMO.
This site should implement a beating-one's-head-against-the-wall emoticon. You get another FAIL. As I already explained to you, you do not merely require that I be open to the idea that P is possibly true; you actually procedurally require that I take on the tacit assumption that P is true. And that's question-begging. If you still do not understand this (despite the fact that I have explained it to you now multiple times in multiple threads), then so be it. It's your problem.
EDIT: You are also simply being disingenuous at this point. You do not merely require that I be open to idea that God possibly exists, so quit pretending like it is a failing on my part that I refuse to accept your procedural requirements. Start facing the fact of the matter: you actually procedurally require (1) that I take on the tacit assumption that God exists, which is just question-begging and (2) that I really want it to be the case that God exists, which simply lessens my ability to approach the inquiry in any objective fashion. Please start actually addressing these actual concerns I have, instead of implying that I refuse to be open to the idea that it is possible that God exists. It is simply disingenuous of you, and I have very little respect left for you at this point.
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadNot sure what you want here. I believe (faith) in God; however, at this time
But do you think there is concrete evidence for the existence of God, or Jesus? Or do you think that faith is necessary? Why do you think God did not make concrete evidence available to everyone?
God for His reasons chooses to not make Himself as fully known as He can be,
but does not hide His Himself completely from us. So God is real, it can go
beyond faith when He chooses, in the mean time evidence for Him is
everywhere in His creation to the point that scripturually it is said that no one
will have an excuse for missing Him due to the creation.
So here all around us is either the handy work of a creator or something
that just sprang from nothing for no outside reasons. I'm willing to entertain
another reason or cause for all we see around us. You can date the universe
as old as you want or call it eternal, you can simply refuse to look at this
as something that needs to be discussed too, as always completely up to you.
Kelly
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by twhiteheadWith respect to Jesus His life as it has touch mine and millions of others
But do you think there is concrete evidence for the existence of God, or Jesus? Or do you think that faith is necessary? Why do you think God did not make concrete evidence available to everyone?
throughout time since He walked as a man among us is a powerful piece of
evidence. He is the Way to God and one need look no further than Him to
find God, but only an honest effort will do, if you are just looking for a genie
in a bottle, or you just to go through the motions for an arguments sake, you’ll
be left wanting.
Kelly
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by knightmeisterSo how do you know you're tuned into the correct frequency? Maybe you need to re-tune?
There is only one God - some religions have aspects of His nature but miss other bits. It's like tuning into a radio signal - there is one signal but some receivers need re-tuning.
27 Feb 12
Originally posted by LemonJello"The Divine Conspiracy" is a book of his I think you would enjoy.
Thank you KJ.
I'll check him out. I found this website for his work:
http://www.dwillard.org/
I read Mere Christianity in one sitting, this book I would read a few pages stop
think about it, and read a few more. I enjoyed it, hopefully you will too if you
run across it.
Kelly