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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Subscriber mchill
    Independent
    29 Mar '18 16:49 / 1 edit
    Agnostics and Atheists: Please save yourselves the mental energy so many of you are burning up in trying to use logic, mathematics, or some other earthly discipline in trying to understand GOD, or peoples faith in GOD, It doesn't work that way. Faith is a gift, you either have it or you don't. Faith may come to you in the future, or not at all, but don't waste your energy trying to use your powers of reason in trying to understand the concept of GOD and faith therein, that would be a great deal like an eggplant trying to understand quantum physics.
  2. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    29 Mar '18 16:59
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Agnostics and Atheists: Please save yourselves the mental energy so many of you are burning up in trying to use logic, mathematics, or some other earthly discipline in trying to understand GOD, or peoples faith in GOD, It doesn't work that way. Faith is a gift, you either have it or you don't. Faith may come to you in the future, or not at all, but don't was ...[text shortened]... h therein, that would be a great deal like an eggplant trying to understand quantum physics.
    So, to clarify, faith is illogical and yet you consider this a gift?
  3. Subscriber mchill
    Independent
    29 Mar '18 17:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    So, to clarify, faith is illogical and yet you consider this a gift?
    I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I prefer to think of it in terms of if sum total of all our earthly wisdom and knowledge could be contained in one sq. meter box, the concept of GOD and faith would be many times larger than that box.
  4. 29 Mar '18 17:26 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @mchill
    I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I prefer to think of it in terms of if sum total of all our earthly wisdom and knowledge could be contained in one sq. meter box, the concept of GOD and faith would be many times larger than that box.
    What is your conception of God?

    What is your conception of faith as it relates to your conception of God?
  5. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    29 Mar '18 17:28
    Originally posted by @mchill
    I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I prefer to think of it in terms of if sum total of all our earthly wisdom and knowledge could be contained in one sq. meter box, the concept of GOD and faith would be many times larger than that box.
    The 'concept' of God owes its very existence to Earthly wisdom and imagination. (As a comforting tool to dampen the horror of mortality).

    You are right though to relegate 'God knowledge' to a location outside of the wisdom box. Personally, I would tuck it out of sight on a dusty shelf.
  6. Subscriber mchill
    Independent
    29 Mar '18 17:52
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    The 'concept' of God owes its very existence to Earthly wisdom and imagination. (As a comforting tool to dampen the horror of mortality).

    You are right though to relegate 'God knowledge' to a location outside of the wisdom box. Personally, I would tuck it out of sight on a dusty shelf.
    The 'concept' of God owes its very existence to Earthly wisdom and imagination.



    Possibly, but I'm not convinced this is 100% true. Remember I believe we're dealing with something we cannot comprehend.
  7. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    29 Mar '18 18:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    The 'concept' of God owes its very existence to Earthly wisdom and imagination.



    Possibly, but I'm not convinced this is 100% true. Remember I believe we're dealing with something we cannot comprehend.
    We can't comprehend a scam when it presents itself? How can you, a college educated man in century 21 believe all the abject BS in the bible as if it actually happened? Why can't you see humans (the best of us, creatively speaking) as fully capable of writing up these stories?

    It is denigrating humans to suppose NO human could have written the stories in the bible. Like the flood story, where a god, who supposedly made the entire universe of trillions of stars and humans and animals and such, would be so unbalanced by the behavior of a group of humans not paying homage to this god, that it would destroy all land life on Earth to get to those 'bad' humans?

    Come on, THINK. Why would a god so powerful as to be able to create an entire universe BILLIONS of light years across be so incensed at the antics of a small bunch of humans, like we are SO important we somehow think we are the only life worth the effort on this planet, where we now KNOW of thousands of other planets just in our little corner of our home galaxy and just extrapolating that where there are literally hundreds of billions of other galaxies in various stages of existence meaning there would be literally trillions of planets out there and a certain number of them will sustain life since this universe was BUILT or whatever to be able to sustain life, most anywhere in the universe where decent conditions are present like being in the goldilocks zone where there is liquid water and such.

    Life looks to me like it is inevitable to develop and I for one can't see why the religious set just can't say, ok, god made the universe and gave it rules that allow life at least on SOME planets, say only one in a million but that leaves millions of other planets with life. So this god looks out on the entire universe and has literally millions of other planets to 'nurture' or whatever such a god would do, but HERE on Earth, it is so unbalanced it destroys most of its own creation just to get back at those humans whom we think are the pinnacle of creation and such.

    Don't you think there is some TINY flaw in that story? This is the BIBLE, supposedly dictated by your god and humans just write down all those stories and they just so happen to be written in such a way that there is now a hierarchy of humans where the ones who wrote or were dictated to, the stories and edicts and such where THEY, the leaders get the best of everything available at the time, and the rest of humanity sucks hind tit.

    Do you really think a god would set up such a system where religions are fighting to the death for thousands of years up to this very day? You don't think a god capable of creating an entire universe, we don't even know if this is the only one, perhaps there are an infinite number of such universes created by your same god and humans are SO important to this god it would set things up in such a way competing religions fight to the death? You don't think a god would know what is going on but doing NOTHING to stop it? That and a hundred other arguments says to me the whole thing is nothing but a human construct. HUMAN, not deity.

    Are you so programmed you are unable to see through the BS of the bible, considering there are literally thousands of other documents just as pithy as the bible but containing totally different stories of how the universe got here, and we are supposed to believe ONLY Christianity is the true religion and all those other religions are SO false the members of those religions will die in a pain ridden eternity?

    Can't you see that as just a means to control the congregation, keep them in fear their entire lives, for thousands of years till today it is a huge religion business, with multi-million dollar churches, monasteries, mosques and temples and it just so HAPPENS the leaders are inside living a nice quite life uneffected by the strife and fighting going on around the world in the name of religion.

    Oh, I forgot, the religious litany is it is NEVER the religion, only bad people.

    But do you think somehow this loving god of yours knows nothing about all this?

    So if it knows all about it, the conclusion is, being an omniscient deity, it WANTS this all to happen and if it turns out we as a human race off ourselves in some nuclear war, that must be what your god wants, maybe it wants to clear the planet of stupid humans so something better can take our place.

    So can you actually think about the things I brought up with a clear mind or will you just come back pulling the 'so now you know the mind of god' card?
  8. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    29 Mar '18 18:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    The 'concept' of God owes its very existence to Earthly wisdom and imagination.



    Possibly, but I'm not convinced this is 100% true. Remember I believe we're dealing with something we cannot comprehend.
    "Remember I believe we're dealing with something we cannot comprehend."



    Why do you 'believe' that? If logic has not delivered you to that conclusion (which you seem to be saying). Why isn't faith underpinned by logic?

    Is God not logical? Are you not fashioned in His image?
  9. Subscriber mchill
    Independent
    29 Mar '18 19:33 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    "Remember I believe we're dealing with something we cannot comprehend."



    Why do you 'believe' that? If logic has not delivered you to that conclusion (which you seem to be saying). Why isn't faith underpinned by logic?

    Is God not logical? Are you not fashioned in His image?
    Is God not logical? Are you not fashioned in His image?


    Logic and outward appearance are 2 very different things. Just because GOD made us in his image, does not necessarily mean GOD is logical by the way we measure or understand logic.
  10. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    29 Mar '18 19:34
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Agnostics and Atheists: Please save yourselves the mental energy so many of you are burning up in trying to use logic, mathematics, or some other earthly discipline in trying to understand GOD, or peoples faith in GOD, It doesn't work that way. Faith is a gift, you either have it or you don't. Faith may come to you in the future, or not at all, but don't was ...[text shortened]... h therein, that would be a great deal like an eggplant trying to understand quantum physics.
    Faith can be a curse as much as a gift.
  11. Subscriber divegeester
    Naughtius Maximus
    29 Mar '18 20:22
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    What is your conception of God?

    What is your conception of faith as it relates to your conception of God?
    I’d love to hear you have the balls to answer these questions.
  12. Subscriber divegeester
    Naughtius Maximus
    29 Mar '18 20:23
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    We can't comprehend a scam when it presents itself? How can you, a college educated man in century 21 believe all the abject BS in the bible as if it actually happened? Why can't you see humans (the best of us, creatively speaking) as fully capable of writing up these stories?

    It is denigrating humans to suppose NO human could have written the stories ...[text shortened]... with a clear mind or will you just come back pulling the 'so now you know the mind of god' card?
    You spelt “bullshyte” wrong...
  13. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    29 Mar '18 20:48
    Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
    Faith can be a curse as much as a gift.
    This kind is the gift:

    And what shall I more say?
    for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak,
    and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also,
    and Samuel, and of the prophets:
    Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness,
    obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
    Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword,
    out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight,
    turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
    Women received their dead raised to life again:
    and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance;
    that they might obtain a better resurrection:
    (Hebrews 11:32-35 KJV)
  14. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    29 Mar '18 20:54
    Originally posted by @bigdoggproblem
    Faith can be a curse as much as a gift.
    Here is the curse :

    For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
    through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
    they are again entangled therein, and overcome,
    the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness,
    than, after they have known it,
    to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)
  15. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    29 Mar '18 21:01
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    This kind is the gift:

    And what shall I more say?
    for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak,
    and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also,
    and Samuel, and of the prophets:
    Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness,
    obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
    Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the e ...[text shortened]... epting deliverance;
    that they might obtain a better resurrection:
    (Hebrews 11:32-35 KJV)
    I don't agree that glorification of war is a gift, sorry.