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Don't try to mix logic and faith

Don't try to mix logic and faith

Spirituality

7 edits

-Removed-
Then there's reality.

I advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

DG advocates for a gospel taught by those other than Jesus - a gospel ABOUT Jesus. Yet inexplicably DG seems to believe himself to be a "follower of Jesus". The reality is that he is a "follower of those other than Jesus".

One advocates for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. The other advocates for a gospel taught by those other than Jesus. Of the two, who is "pretending to be a follower of Jesus"?

DG is unable to reasonably refute what I post when advocating for the gospel preached by Jesus during his ministry. In desperation he attacks the messenger, since he is unable to refute the message. DG hates the truth. DG hates reality.

According to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, it's about abiding in and keeping His word and no longer committing sin. 
John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
--Those who commit sin are slaves.

" 31 ...If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
--Those who are true disciples of Jesus are freed from the slavery of committing sin and are no longer slaves.

"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
--Jesus reemphasizes that his true disciples are indeed made free from committing sin.

" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
--Those who continue to commit sin will not have eternal life. Those who no longer commit sin will have eternal life.

DG is unable to reasonably refute the above truth from the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. If he remains true to form, he will continue to attack the messenger.

"The truth will make you free"

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Originally posted by @mchill
Worst thread title ever, no offense



No offence taken. I see you're still struggling with this. Well, maybe someday...
No, I'm not struggling . Your OP is just flat out wrong

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Originally posted by @sonhouse
We can't comprehend a scam when it presents itself? How can you, a college educated man in century 21 believe all the abject BS in the bible as if it actually happened? Why can't you see humans (the best of us, creatively speaking) as fully capable of writing up these stories?

It is denigrating humans to suppose NO human could have written the stories ...[text shortened]... with a clear mind or will you just come back pulling the 'so now you know the mind of god' card?
I see you're struggling with this. The fact is I'm not here to 2nd guess what GOD had in mind when he created the universe, but please don't try to use logic or reason to figure it out. It doesn't work that way.


Originally posted by @mchill
I see you're struggling with this. The fact is I'm not here to 2nd guess what GOD had in mind when he created the universe, but please don't try to use logic or reason to figure it out. It doesn't work that way.
Is this lack of logic the reason you capitalize all the letters in GOD?


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And DG remains true to form as forecast:

I advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

DG advocates for a gospel taught by those other than Jesus - a gospel ABOUT Jesus. Yet inexplicably DG seems to believe himself to be a "follower of Jesus". The reality is that he is a "follower of those other than Jesus"

One advocates for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. The other advocates for a gospel taught by those other than Jesus. Of the two, who is "pretending to be a follower of Jesus"?

DG is unable to reasonably refute the truth from the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. If he remains true to form, he will continue to attack the messenger.

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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Is this lack of logic the reason you capitalize all the letters in GOD?
Not really, it's the same reason I write tea cosy rather than tea cozy, and it's the same reason I drink tea rather than coffee. My little act's of civil disobedience. 😀


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Originally posted by @mchill
Not really, it's the same reason I write tea cosy rather than tea cozy, and it's the same reason I drink tea rather than coffee. My little act's of civil disobedience. 😀
Apologies if my sarcasm is a little dry at times sir. (Though you seem to have detected it).

Perhaps you've been drinking the wrong kind of coffee?

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Originally posted by @mchill
I see you're struggling with this. The fact is I'm not here to 2nd guess what GOD had in mind when he created the universe, but please don't try to use logic or reason to figure it out. It doesn't work that way.
I'M struggling? did you actually read my whole argument? Where the evidence clearly shows your "GOD" WANTS the crap in the world to be as it is. You don't want to pull the 'so now you know the mind of god' card but you cannot seem to grasp the absolute fact that some humans are WAY more intelligent than average and can use that intelligence to attract followers and it has happened on Earth literally thousands of times, generating thousands of religions. You make some guesses (back say 3000 years ago) say ten guesses, ONE comes true, "SEE, I told you GOD told me personally'.

We talk about intelligence in terms of IQ, and of course it is MUCH more complex than a mere IQ rating, but when we find people with IQ's in the 99.999 % tile, one in one hundred thousand, then there are 80,000 such individuals on Earth. You don't figure people with that level of intelligence can dupe the average person with bullshyte arguments that SOUNDS valid?

You cannot seem to understand the difference in intelligence of those top level folks and the average bunch like us.

THAT is one of the biggest problems I have with the religious crowd, the ABSOLUTE inability to understand just how much more intelligent those folks are. And don't forget, there are one in a million such folks too, and there would be 8000 of them on the planet as we speak.

Do you honestly think you can understand their intelligence level?

With high intelligence goes automatically the ability to dupe the average crowd.

Do you doubt that statement?

Suppose the world population 10,000 years ago was 10 million, just a guess, even with that low a population, there would be ten people with one in a million intelligence level.

You do not seem to be able to comprehend just how powerful that level of intelligence actually is, where people would be hanging on his or her every word and all that person has to do is say, 'this did not come from me, I am just a dumb person like everyone else, no it was given to me directly by GOD so believe me when I say those things'

Try to think about the implications of such a level of intelligence.

Maybe then you can see why there are in absolute fact thousands of extant religions on Earth and not a unified religion given by a real god.

You also cannot seem to understand the word omniscient.

It would be for such an individual, child's play for it to say to every human on Earth at the exact same time 'ok folks, I am your god, here is how it is going to play out' in each of the thousands of languages on Earth since such a being is 'omniscient' they could be speaking in a million languages and it would STILL remain child's play for that omniscient being.

And, these super intelligent people get around that objection by just saying 'GOD gives us free will' and people fall for that one hook line and sinker.

But the average intelligent person would and in fact ARE duped by people of high intelligence.

If you don't believe that can happen, look at the history of Scientology, a bullshyte religion and CLEARLY man made by L Ron Hubbard, a physicist and sci fi writer who, at a party where the discussion ranged into religion and Hubbard announced, some time around 1949 ish, "I can start a religion'' and he did, and now it is a multi-billion dollar business and a cold one at that.

Try then to see the possibility the same thing happened 5000 years ago with the beginnings of Jewish faith.

So that morphed into Christianity, even though for instance, the 7 day creation tale was lifted from a much earlier Egyptian version, updated for the mind of the early Jews.

And now a LOT of people take the 7 day creation tale as ABSOLUTE fact even though the entire tale was lifted from another culture.

CLEAR indication of the power of high intelligence to dupe the average level of intelligence in ANY given population which explains why there are SO many religions.

That would be because every country or tribe has its people of extreme intelligence, it's not THAT rare especially when the population grows so large and there are literally thousands of languages where one extreme intelligent person in some language, say Hindi or Sanscript, can start writing thousands of pages of pithy sayings and advice and that will be taken as a sign all that came from a god.

I think you can agree the ancient Sanscript religions came from individuals not from a god, but you INSIST YOUR religion is not one of those like Scientology but in absolute fact, from a god.

Think about it. PLEASE.

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Originally posted by @sonhouse
I'M struggling? did you actually read my whole argument? Where the evidence clearly shows your "GOD" WANTS the crap in the world to be as it is. You don't want to pull the 'so now you know the mind of god' card but you cannot seem to grasp the absolute fact that some humans are WAY more intelligent than average and can use that intelligence to attract foll ...[text shortened]... not one of those like Scientology but in absolute fact, from a god.

Think about it. PLEASE.
I'M struggling?...Think about it. PLEASE.

Yes you are struggling.

Mchill's point seems to be that "faith" has nothing to do with thinking.

So why are you pleading for him to "think"?

Perhaps this sheds light on why so many people of "faith" do not "think" and can do little more than regurgitate the dogma that they've been taught.


Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]I'M struggling?...Think about it. PLEASE.

Yes you are struggling.

Mchill's point seems to be that "faith" has nothing to do with thinking.

So why are you pleading for him to "think"?

Perhaps this sheds light on why so many people of "faith" do not "think" and can do little more than regurgitate the dogma that they've been taught.[/b]
Because if you actually think critically about the issue, you MIGHT be able to see your way out of the quagmire of religion which is all man made. There is no struggle here. I am very clear on my own position.

You seem to think if I struggle hard enough I will be led back to the religious life.

THAT you can forget. There is no struggle on my part.
You simple cannot understand the persuasive power of highly intelligent people. Too bad for you.


Originally posted by @sonhouse
Because if you actually think critically about the issue, you MIGHT be able to see your way out of the quagmire of religion which is all man made. There is no struggle here. I am very clear on my own position.

You seem to think if I struggle hard enough I will be led back to the religious life.

THAT you can forget. There is no struggle on my part. ...[text shortened]... You simple cannot understand the persuasive power of highly intelligent people. Too bad for you.
Actually, I meant that you seem to be struggling with the fact that "Mchill's point seems to be that 'faith' has nothing to do with thinking". If you understood that that's where he's coming from, you wouldn't plead for him to "think". Evidently there's absolutely no thinking involved for him.

As I said, "Perhaps this sheds light on why so many people of 'faith' do not 'think' and can do little more than regurgitate the dogma that they've been taught".


Originally posted by @thinkofone
Actually, I meant that you seem to be struggling with the fact that "Mchill's point seems to be that 'faith' has nothing to do with thinking". If you understood that that's where he's coming from, you wouldn't plead for him to "think". Evidently there's absolutely no thinking involved for him.

As I said, "Perhaps this sheds light on why so many peopl ...[text shortened]... ith' do not 'think' and can do little more than regurgitate the dogma that they've been taught".
In fairness to mchill, He seems to view God as something we cannot comprehend with a (finite) logic. I don't think he is saying theists don't think.

It appears you are twisting his words somewhat to fit your own agenda. (Nothing new there).

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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
In fairness to mchill, He seems to view God as something we cannot comprehend with a (finite) logic. I don't think he is saying theists don't think.

It appears you are twisting his words somewhat to fit your own agenda. (Nothing new there).
It appears you are twisting his words somewhat to fit your own agenda. (Nothing new there).

The reality is that you're twisting what I wrote to fit YOUR own agenda. (Nothing new there). You've been one of the most deceitful posters on this forum pretty much since you started posting here.

As I plainly stated:
"Mchill's point seems to be that 'faith' has nothing to do with thinking"