Doubt good, certainty bad

Originally posted by FMF
But surely they must be "defined" if they have been "adjudged to be irredeemable"?

JW members get to "adjudge" autonomously, while under instructions to "hate" them if they are "irredeemable", and all this without definitions from your organisation? This does not add up, robbie.

yes but who they are and if they are irredeemable is not really apparent is it, how can
you tell if someone is irredeemable? Not add up? dear oh dear, in order to loathe one
needs to attach ones loathing to an object, if one cannot be found or identified, one
cannot display a loathing towards something that does not exist, can one.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but who they are and if they are irredeemable is not really apparent is it, how can
you tell if someone is irredeemable?

Well that's my question to you, as a JW who is instructed to hate them "if they are irredeemable". I am not under such instructions. That is why I am asking you. You asking me in return is not an answer. to my question.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes but who is a hater of God?

I am asking you robbie. Asking me the same question I have been asking you for several pages does not answer my question.

Originally posted by FMF
I am asking you robbie. Asking me the same question I have been asking you for several pages does not answer my question.

and i have stated Satan, the daemonic hordes (these are considered irredeemable for
scriptural reasons) and some humans not identified. I have provided reasons why its
not immediately apparent who these humans might be and that's all i can state with
any certainty. I dont engage in useless speculation, sorry, you should know this by now.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
and i have stated Satan, the daemonic hordes (these are considered irredeemable for
scriptural reasons) and some humans not identified. I have provided reasons why its
not immediately apparent who these humans might be and that's all i can state with
any certainty.

And whether you hate them or not is "entirely up to the individual JW". You do not feel you are under any instruction to do so?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
and i have stated Satan, the daemonic hordes (these are considered irredeemable for
scriptural reasons) and some humans not identified. I have provided reasons why its
not immediately apparent who these humans might be and that's all i can state with
any certainty. I dont engage in useless speculation, sorry, you should know this by now.

I dont engage in useless speculation...........

after you wrote -

i have stated Satan, the daemonic hordes.........

Brilliant.

Originally posted by FMF
And whether you hate them or not is "entirely up to the individual JW". You do not feel you are under any instruction to do so?

yes, how can someone force you to hate another? what one does with instruction is
entirely up to the individual, now stated for the fourth or fifth time, I have lost count.

Originally posted by Proper Knob

I dont engage in useless speculation...........

after you wrote -

i have stated Satan, the daemonic hordes.........

Brilliant.

i am glad it raised a smile, but the Bible is quite clear on the matter, Satan is
irredeemable as are the daemonic hordes who followed him.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes, how can someone force you to hate another? what one does with instruction is
entirely up to the individual, now stated for the fourth or fifth time, I have lost count.

JWs do not have to obey the instructions of their organisation?

Why didn't you mention this right at the beginning of the thread?

Originally posted by FMF
JWs do not have to obey the instructions of their organisation?

Why didn't you mention this right at the beginning of the thread?

Is this really the best you can do FMF, reduce these principles to commands? We are not driods, we are human beings,
we are free moral agents, we can exercise our own consciences, it appears to me that you somehow seem to be
harbouring the delusion that we cannot? That we are auto-bots, without individuality, unreasoning, unable to utilise our
own perceptive powers. Clearly we are nothing of the sort.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Is this really the best you can do FMF, reduce these principles to commands?

The material you copy pasted from The Watchtower on page 11 was without doubt 'instructions' to JWs.

You have had enormous difficulty defining the "principles" you speak of and no more luck explaining how these "principles" are applied. By the end you were talking about them applying to "daemonic hordes" and their application being "entirely up to the individual JW". I shall take your suggestion that it is ME who is "harbouring the delusion" with a pinch of ironic salt.

Originally posted by FMF
The material you copy pasted from The Watchtower on page 11 was without doubt 'instructions' to JWs.

You have had enormous difficulty defining the "principles" you speak of and no more luck explaining how these "principles" are applied. By the end you were talking about them applying to "daemonic hordes" and their application being "entirely up to the individ ggestion that it is ME who is "harbouring the delusion" with a pinch of ironic salt.

you can take it anyway you like, with salt, pepper or mango chutney, I dont care, it
has been demonstrated to you that one needs an object of enmity to display hatred of
any kind, you could not reconcile this fact with the idea that instructions were given
which indicated that haters of God are to be hated, although it did not specify who they
were, other than citing that is was a satanic agency and may include some people, not
specified. Instead you used it as a pretext for trying to assert that we are hateful in
general, are free to hate all persons, are free to hate on a whim, that if we dont hate in
general, on a whim and all persons we are not following instructions, which was again a
misrepresentation of the article, the examples and the scriptural principles that were
provided. Why would you do that FMF? What have you gained from it?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Instead you used it as a pretext for trying to assert that we are hateful in
general, are free to hate all persons, are free to hate on a whim, that if we dont hate in
general, on a whim and all persons we are not following instructions, which was again a
misrepresentation of the article...

I made no such assertion, robbie.

Originally posted by FMF
I made no such assertion, robbie.

I believe you did FMF, through the wording of your texts, if I am mistaken, then I
apologise, but it certainly appeared that way to me.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I believe you did FMF, through the wording of your texts, if I am mistaken, then I
apologise, but it certainly appeared that way to me.

I clearly made no such assertion, robbie.