06 Nov 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI find that I doubt a great deal. I probably doubt most of the tenents of Christianity at various times, but not all the time. I struggle with faith and God. Ironically those two stories, and events like them, I told in your other thread tend to help me through times of doubt.
Which aspect of your faith do you most frequently doubt?
06 Nov 05
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressDo you have faith that you have two arms?
This is really just splitting hairs. Faith is based off of proof, direct experience, empirical knowledge. This is the point that I’m trying to make.
Faith in reference to God is the proof of things unseen because you’ve proved it only to yourself. You may have seen God, but others still cannot.
Obviously, if we’re talking about my arms, everybody can see them.
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06 Nov 05
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressIf you ask me if I have true faith in this, again, how can I? Jesus sets a very high standard that people (Christians included) break all the time. So how does anybody know if they’re accepted by Jesus?
Good question. There are places in scripture that seem to suggest that believing may be enough for this to be true.
If you ask me if I have true faith in this, again, how can I? Jesus sets a very high standard that people (Christians included) break all the time. So how does anybody know if they’re accepted by Jesus?
Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stan ...[text shortened]... ce him directly. This is faith, and it's a lot better than taking somebody else's word for it.
Rom 5:1-11
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
(NKJ)
Have you ever read these verses? If you have, then obviously you have not believed them and you , according to the bible, are still in your sins.
Just something to think about.
06 Nov 05
3 edits
Originally posted by checkbaiterFaith is only as good as the object of one's faith.
[b]If you ask me if I have true faith in this, again, how can I? Jesus sets a very high standard that people (Christians included) break all the time. So how does anybody know if they’re accepted by Jesus?
Rom 5:1-11
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have ...[text shortened]... d them and you , according to the bible, are still in your sins.
Just something to think about.[/b]
John 20:29 29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Yes, this is one of the places that I was referring to where Jesus says that it might be enough to simply believe.
Rom 5:1-11 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
I have no argument with these verses.
Romans 5:1-2 talks about faith (which is the proof of things unseen). As I have said I believe that true faith is possible, and I am looking forward to the day that I will be justified by faith. Until then I’ll continue to believe.
Have you ever read these verses? If you have, then obviously you have not believed them and you , according to the bible, are still in your sins. Just something to think about.
I’m not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Perhaps you could explain.
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06 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressHere is why I say that the word of God is necessary...
[b]Faith is only as good as the object of one's faith.
John 20:29 29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Yes, this is one of the places that I was referring to where Jesus says that it might be enough to simply believe.
Rom 5:1-11 1 ...[text shortened]... think about.
I’m not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Perhaps you could explain.[/b]
Rom 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed (fashioned) to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
(NKJ)
The word "transformed" is .....
3339 metamorphoo (met-am-or-fo'-o)
from 3326 and 3445; to transform (literally or figuratively, "metamorphose"
KJV-- change, transfigure, transform.
which is where we get the word metamorphasis, like a caterpillar being transformed in his cocoon.
This is how you "put on the mind of Christ" and prove God to yourself.
To be fashioned like the world is to have the same fears, doubts, anger, etc. God is saying put that off.
Eph 4:20-32
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
(NKJ)
To prove God is to take Him at His word.
06 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiterHere is why I say that the word of God is necessary...
Here is why I say that the word of God is necessary...
Rom 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed (fashioned) to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prov ...[text shortened]... e another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
(NKJ)
To prove God is to take Him at His word.
Rom 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed (fashioned) to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. (NKJ)
The word "transformed" is ..... 3339 metamorphoo (met-am-or-fo'-o)
from 3326 and 3445; to transform (literally or figuratively, "metamorphose"
KJV-- change, transfigure, transform.which is where we get the word metamorphasis, like a caterpillar being transformed in his cocoon.
This is how you "put on the mind of Christ" and prove God to yourself.
To be fashioned like the world is to have the same fears, doubts, anger, etc. God is saying put that off.
Ok, so far so good. Jesus tells us not to store up our treasures here on earth but in Heaven, and of coarse accepting God into your life I agree is transforming. Simply reading the scripture and hearing somebody preach is not enough for this to happen though. Each must find proof in themselves.
Eph 4:20-32
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
(NKJ)
To prove God is to take Him at His word.
This is all very nice, and again I can agree with the verses that you gave. I’ve always said that scripture is important as it guides and encourages us (if interpreted correctly).
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
The only point that I disagree with you on is that proving God can be done by the scripture. Proving God is something that people need to do for themselves.
If anything this passage is saying that reading the scripture is not enough to know Jesus.
Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! Or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
Jer 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when yee shall search for me with all your heart."
If people interpret the scripture in a way that encourages them to find God in themselves, then the scripture is important and can give them the strength that’s necessary to do this.
This is not always the case though, If a church interprets the scripture the way that BlindFaith101 does (as many churches do), then the scripture will fill people’s heart with fear, and this will drive them away from God.
Where are we miscommunicating?
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06 Nov 05
To "put on the new man" takes time. It has nothing to do with being "born again", it has everything to do with after being born again.
To be born again/saved is simple. See Romans 10:9...you won't "feel" any different. This is where Christians stumble the most. Satan comes around and suggests to your mind, and it will seem like your own thoughts, that there is more. "You are not really saved." Then he has you doubting and growth stops. But at least you can't lose your salvation. God knew this beforehand. That is why He made it easy. Christ has done all the work, salvation is a gift. Romans 5....If you want more....you have to learn God's word, I can't stress that enough. Why do you supose God says in Psalm 138 :2 that He has magnified His word above all His name. Think about that statement. God says He has magnified His word above....so what do you suppose the world will say in response? "Its only a book" It was written by men", "You believe what??"
That is how satan works. Not grotesque looking demons like in the movies. He attacks the mind with doubt. If he can succeed in planting doubt in your mind about God's word being a myth, not relevent, etc. then he has defeated you already. And you will never "experience" God.
I have seen this over and over all through my own life. When I made the decision that the bible is not only the word of God, but also the "will" of God, then I began seeing results. That is when I became "anchored". The world is a sea of doubt. There is nothing concrete to hang onto. There are uncertainties of the future, doubt, fear, worry, stress, etc. But the bible became to me an anchor that cannot be moved. Through it, God teaches me, comforts me, increases my faith and knowledge and reveals Himself to me. How do you think I am writing what I am writing.
That is why I said in another post that the skeptic will not find Him. Believe me when I say I have been there.
1 Pet 1:24-25
24 because "All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the Lord endures forever." Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.
(NKJ)
1 Pet 2:1-2
1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all guile, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,
2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,
(NKJ)
06 Nov 05
2 edits
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesPersonally, I believe that when we finally find God, he gives us all the knowledge that we need. He brings all things to remembrance. This of coarse is as good a proof as anyone can ever have. This is true faith.
I see. So, it would be impossible to have faith in, say, the biblical account of Noah building the ark?
At this point, I’m not sure how I could have true faith in the story of Noah, though I do believe it.