Elisha and the Bears

For a cheerful take on the Elisha and the she-bears eating the kids story, I found this on BibleGateway.com Commentaries:

The Lord must be glorified as a righteous God who hates sin, and will reckon for it. Let young persons be afraid of speaking wicked words, for God notices what they say. Let them not mock at any for defects in mind or body; especially it is at their peril, if they scoff at any for well doing. Let parents that would have comfort in their children, train them up well, and do their utmost betimes to drive out the foolishness that is bound up in their hearts. And what will be the

anguish of those parents, at the day of judgment, who witness the everlasting condemnation of their offspring, occasioned by their own bad example, carelessness, or wicked teaching!

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/index.php?action=getCommentaryText&cid=29&source=2&seq=i.12.2.4


Spare the she-bears, spoil the child!

Originally posted by ivanhoe
..... I will not hold my breath though.

Come on, just for a few minutes...😉

Originally posted by no1marauder
Spare the she-bears, spoil the child!

Little Darwin Patrick Barr will not be spared the she-bears, I tell thee!

Originally posted by royalchicken
Presumably you ask because I spend a fair chunk of time thinking about maths; no, I'm afraid I'm not one of those people who is inspired in dreams or something but if I've been concentrating on something very hard, especially maths, I sometimes dream about it immediately afterwards, although not very coherently. So yes I suppose.

Remember the images in your dreams. Try to put them on paper !

I used to be a fortune teller in a previous life you know. I was very lucky. I was put out of my misery by my customers a short while after I began practising. You have to be clever in life !

Originally posted by bbarr
Come on, just for a few minutes...😉

*sigh* if you insist ...... 😉

Originally posted by bbarr
Little Darwin Patrick Barr will not be spared the she-bears, I tell thee!

Will you really name your child Darwin? Please tell me this is true.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

You're not overweight ? Since when ?

What do you consider overweight?

Originally posted by bbarr
Why 42 children, dammit! There has to be a reason!

In Hebrew, each letter also stands for a number (there are no numerals in Biblical Hebrew). Now, the word for bear is spelled dalet bet (DB, pronounced dob; there were no real vowels in Hebrew either: sometimes a consonant could also have a vowel sound, and vowel markings were added later). Dalet is the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, bet is the second letter: 4 and 2.

The words used to identify the number of children in the story are arba’im v’sheni. arba’im is the plural form of arba, which means four-fold, quadruple, a four-count; hence, arba’im was used for the word “forty.” v’sheni means “and a double.”

A Jewish reader would recognize the complex pun on the word dob, meaning bear, but also the numerals 4 and 2. Traditional midrashic exegesis gets a lot of mileage out of such word-plays.

Since Hebrew is based on a consonantal root system (usually three, but in this case two), words with the same consonantal roots can be related, regardless of the order of the letters. Now, the word spelled bet-dalet (BD), also means idle talk or prattle. It would not be outside of midrashic exegesis to propose that this verse means, symbolically, that “idle chatter ate them up.”

Also, As Kirk noted, the numerals 4 and 2 add up to 6: one number less than perfection, or the number of days in a laboring week, or…. (This is called gematria.)

Basically, in Talmudic and Midrashic exegesis, Jews do not look for “the one right meaning,” but all the possible meanings, looking for symbolism, metaphor, word-plays, even puns.

Originally posted by vistesd
In Hebrew, each letter also stands for a number (there are no numerals in Biblical Hebrew). Now, the word for bear is spelled dalet bet (DB, pronounced dob; there were no real vowels in Hebrew either: sometimes a consonant could also have a vowel sound, and vowel markings were added later). Dalet is the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, ...[text shortened]... aning,” but all the possible meanings, looking for symbolism, metaphor, word-plays, even puns.

I hereby request that all questions of the nature of said "she-bears" be directed to this theologically literate brother. I am unworthy to stand in his presence. I am glad he hath returned.

Originally posted by kirksey957
I hereby request that all questions of the nature of said "she-bears" be directed to this theologically literate brother. I am unworthy to stand in his presence. I am glad he hath returned.

amen brother

Originally posted by vistesd
In Hebrew, each letter also stands for a number (there are no numerals in Biblical Hebrew). Now, the word for bear is spelled dalet bet (DB, pronounced dob; there were no real vowels in Hebrew either: sometimes a consonant could also have a vowel sound, and vowel markings were added later). Dalet is the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, ...[text shortened]... aning,” but all the possible meanings, looking for symbolism, metaphor, word-plays, even puns.

That's fascinating, those old stories can perhaps provide a window into the minds of the people who wrote them.
I saw a piece about the Golden Fleece which suggested the story was really a mundane account of a trade mission spiced up.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
That's fascinating, those old stories can perhaps provide a window into the minds of the people who wrote them.
I saw a piece about the Golden Fleece which suggested the story was really a mundane account of a trade mission spiced up.

Agreed. Talmudists and midrashists, however, also try to find new and innovative—and even humorous— possibilities in those stories. They’re style of exegesis is seldom literal, and hardly ever “heavy-minded.”

Originally posted by vistesd
In Hebrew, each letter also stands for a number (there are no numerals in Biblical Hebrew). Now, the word for bear is spelled dalet bet (DB, pronounced dob; there were no real vowels in Hebrew either: sometimes a consonant could also have a vowel sound, and vowel markings were added later). Dalet is the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet, ...[text shortened]... aning,” but all the possible meanings, looking for symbolism, metaphor, word-plays, even puns.

maybe you can help me determine the significance of horns determining six days (from the 5th Tablet of the Enuma Elish}

12. The Moon-god he caused to shine forth, the night he entrusted to him.

13. He appointed him, a being of the night, to determine the days;

14. Every month without ceasing with the crown he covered(?) him, (saying):

15. "At the beginning of the month, when thou shinest upon the land,

16. "Thou commandest the horns to determine six days,

17. "And on the seventh day to [divide] the crown.

18. "On the fourteenth day thou shalt stand opposite, the half [...].

Originally posted by vistesd
Agreed. Talmudists and midrashists, however, also try to find new and innovative—and even humorous— possibilities in those stories. They’re style of exegesis is seldom literal, and hardly ever “heavy-minded.”

Naughty boys ...
Getting creative with "history" and all.
Still, a written clue is better than no clue as in the case of the poor people who try to understand the minds of those who created something like Stonehenge.

Originally posted by frogstomp
maybe you can help me determine the significance of horns determining six days (from the 5th Tablet of the Enuma Elish}

12. The Moon-god he caused to shine forth, the night he entrusted to him.

13. He appointed him, a being of the night, to determine the days;

14. Every month without ceasing with the crown he covered(?) him, (saying):

15. ...[text shortened]... divide] the crown.

18. "On the fourteenth day thou shalt stand opposite, the half [...].

Beyond me, froggy. 😕 I really don't know a lot about mythology in general. If we were talking Hebrew, I'd start by looking up the Hebrew word for "horn." (Is the Enuma Elish written in a Semitic language, that would be related to Hebrew? I think you said once, but I forget.)

I just like to play with the Hebrew and midrash, but I am far from fluent--I have to use a lot of tools.