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Originally posted by SwissGambitnot true. if you have a mortgage ( "death contract" ), the bank owns your home. it means you pledged your rights to the property as security to a loan.
You do own your home even though foreclosure can happen if you don't pay the mortgage.
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another word for foreclosure is "repossession"
Your assets can be seized if you fail [for example] to pay income tax. If that nullified property ownership, then no one required to pay income tax would be considered a property owner. It's hard to say if there would be any property owners at all under such a strange definition of own.
income taxes are a contract between you and the internal revenue service in connection to your social security card (for example in the usa). by signing up, you are entering into a binding contract that allows them to seize your property on failure to pay.
Property taxes are the law. They are not some signed contract between just the owner and the government. They apply to most citizens. They do not nullify ownership.
Property taxes are not just a fee for use of the property. They are used partly for funding education [horrible though it may be].
any assets that can be seized are owned by the person or organization that has the power to seize it. they either took that power for themselves (through law/coercion) or you entered into a binding agreement through contracts (which may also be forced through coercion such as the social security contract in the usa).
a property tax is a use tax. if you fail to pay property taxes, the government takes your home. that fits the definition of a lease.
the terms have been bedraggled to confuse people into submission, but these do not change the facts. the word ownership is just thrown in to give you a false sense of security. what it really means is that you own the right to live in, or build on the property (sometimes with restrictions), you have the right to sublease, rent it or or sell it (again with restrictions). but you do not really own it.
Originally posted by VoidSpiritNo, you own your home before foreclosure:
not true. if you have a mortgage ( "death contract" ), the bank owns your home. it means you pledged your rights to the property as security to a loan.
another word for foreclosure is "repossession"
[quote]
Your assets can be seized if you fail [for example] to pay income tax. If that nullified property ownership, then no one required to p ...[text shortened]... o sublease, rent it or or sell it (again with restrictions). but you do not really own it.
www.dictionary.com
Foreclose
1. Law . a.
to deprive (a mortgagor or pledgor) of the right to redeem his or her property, especially on failure to make payment on a mortgage when due, ownership of property then passing to the mortgagee.
Repossession isn't a synonym for foreclosure.
Social security numbers are assigned at birth. There is no 'opting out' of this 'contract'. The employers are required by law to report all wages using the SSN. You're simply ignorant of US law.
any assets that can be seized are owned by the person or organization that has the power to seize it.
False.
a property tax is a use tax. if you fail to pay property taxes, the government takes your home. that fits the definition of a lease.
False. The definition of lease is:
a contract renting land, buildings, etc., to another; a contract or instrument conveying property to another for a specified period or for a period determinable at the will of either lessor or lessee in consideration of rent or other compensation.
In your last paragraph, you have admitted that we can rent out the property even though we have the chance of losing it to foreclosure. This jibes with the posted definition of 'lease' above; in this case, we are the lessor, not the lessee.
Most people I know aren't confused about the meanings of these terms; just you. By your standard of 'really own', no one 'really owns' anything.
Originally posted by FMFNo, I do not. There are no Hutterites in Michigan. But if you actually read my posts, you'd see that I do not recommend that everyone become a Hutterite. I only recommend that they use their template for society to create comparable arrangements.
You live with the Hutterites then, do you?
Whether you care or not, I did live in a communal arrangement for a year in Missouri, at a place called East Wind Community. But now I have returned to preach the gospel of communalism among the unwashed heathens (which is you).
Originally posted by rwingettYou lived in a communal arrangement "for a year"?
Whether you care or not, I did live in a communal arrangement for a year in Missouri, at a place called East Wind Community. But now I have returned to preach the gospel of communalism among the unwashed heathens (which is you).
Originally posted by FMFThere are many things that people can do in their own neighborhood to help usher in the Kingdom short of traveling to Montana.
Anyone can recognize that society needs changing. The first step toward changing the society you live in is to take action and actually do what you urge other people to do.
Good grief, you single yourself out as recognizing that society needs changing? How funny.
People like you, on the other hand... what?
Originally posted by FMFMy message to them is that they should work to change the society they find themselves in, wherever they find themselves. You should not have to move halfway around the country to find a place worth living.
Do you tell the people you preach to that after your "one year", you're done with living in a communal arrangement, or do you tell them you're on the verge of going back there?
Originally posted by rwingettI work to change the society I find myself in. Is that all you have to say? Sounds a bit like you're peddling a "Do As I Do [although it just so happens that i don't do it anymore, but you asked my advice, so I'm telling you to do it (i.e. what I did for a year)]" pyramid scheme.
My message to them is that they should work to change the society they find themselves in, wherever they find themselves. You should not have to move halfway around the country to find a place worth living.
Originally posted by AgergAnd I say unto you that that is the failing of your top-down, hierarchical thinking. You don't scale the system up at all. You replicate it millions of times over. It's a horizontal expansion, not a vertical one.
[b]Perhaps you missed the whole part about the Hutterites. They live the way I've been describing. I'd have thought that you'd have picked up on that by now. Look at how they manage their "communistic" version of society and you'll have your answer. There are 42,000+ people living that way now, in the real world.
There are roughly 7 billion people living ...[text shortened]... presents ~0.0006% of them. There is little reason, yet, to believe that system scales.[/b]
Originally posted by rwingettDo you think your message would have been more convincing if you'd lived in a communal arrangement "for a year and a half" or "for two years" rather than just "for a year"?
And I say unto you that that is the failing of your top-down, hierarchical thinking. You don't scale the system up at all. You replicate it millions of times over. It's a horizontal expansion, not a vertical one.
Originally posted by FMFYour cynicism is rather dull. I repeat, there is much that can be done within ones own neighborhood that will lessen their degree of collaboration with the system and be a positive impact for change. The Kingdom will not be realized in one fell swoop. It will take small contributions from many, many people before it is fully actualized.
I work to change the society I find myself in. Is that all you have to say? Sounds a bit like you're peddling a "Do As I Do [although it just so happens that i don't do it anymore, but you asked my advice, so I'm telling you to do it (i.e. what I did for a year)]" pyramid scheme.
If you'll excuse me, the messiah is in the middle of conducting a mock fantasy football draft at the moment, so my attention is divided.