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30 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidYou are merely demonstrating your lack of knowledge around fossils. Yes, 'knowledge' not 'faith.'
LOL seriously, someone picks up a rock, then claims that used to be something living called this, then they go on this lived so many millions of years ago, then they go on with more claims these were related to these other rocks that used to be living things, and even more claims are made they all are ancestors to what we see today as X. These statements and others are for y ...[text shortened]... u reject written accounts. You can look at a rock and know, and you think religion makes things up!?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI am demonstrating my lack of knowledge, really?
You are merely demonstrating your lack of knowledge around fossils. Yes, 'knowledge' not 'faith.'
So facts when someone says this fossil/rock history is this?
So facts when someone says this lived X millions of years ago not Y?
So facts when someone says this fossil was related to those not these?
So facts when someone digs up fossil fragments and says these rocks were all:
one creature not two
two creatures not one or three
three creatures not one two or four
We are not guessing, with people just giving it their best shot?
They know, we have knowledge, not some made up stories that will have to change if something new comes along and dispels current thinking. We have moved past this ever changing correction time when science has to correct itself!
Just so I know at what date and time did we arrive at this junction with our ability to be flawless in our estimation on fossils?
I think your faith is in an ever correcting changing process.
I think your denying reality to make your point of view appear to be more than it really is.
I prefer the story that doesn't have to change.
30 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidYes of course you prefer the story, but as you say, it's only a story, written down by people hundreds of years ago before we knew that which we know to day of evolution and science in general.
I am demonstrating my lack of knowledge, really?
So facts when someone says this fossil/rock history is this?
So facts when someone says this lived X millions of years ago not Y?
So facts when someone says this fossil was related to those not these?
So facts when someone digs up fossil fragments and says these rocks were all:
one creature not two
two creatures not one ...[text shortened]... oint of view appear to be more than it really is.
I prefer the story that doesn't have to change.
Let me give you an example by making a simple statement;
'I am a Dalek.'
There, that is written down so now you have to believe that I am a Dalek. See how it works?
What you fail to understand about science is that it is an ongoing, developing process; our knowledge increases the more we learn of the world around us, which is a truism but there it is. Scientific dogma is as counterproductive to the development of knowledge as is religious dogma; we live, we study and we learn, and no scientist worthy of the name will tell you that we know and understand everything.
Nevertheless to reject such knowledge as we have, as you appear to do, is pure dogma. 'This is how it is and nobody can disagree with me, because I'm right, and I'm right because I believe.'
This is childish, intellectual garbage. Belief is not knowledge, or development, or progress, it is only belief, and it's your right to believe whatever you want, nobody for a moment is denying you that, but to reject all other beliefs and the whole of science is to put your head in a straight - jacket.
'Exterminate....Exterminate....'
Postscript; A working knowledge of 'Doctor Who' is required to fully understand this post.
30 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidThat reminds me.
Let me give you an example by making a simple statement;
'I am a Dalek.'
'Exterminate....Exterminate....'
Postscript; A working knowledge of 'Doctor Who' is required to fully understand this post.
Time to binge watch season 11 again.
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30 Jun 19
I spent must have been an hour watching a very technical video arguing that the Steady State Theory of the origin the universe was BACK !
Whew !! I actually enjoyed it. I doubt anyone here completely comprehends entirely what was being explained.
Over Two Hours.
The Perfect Cosmological Principle | Return of the Steady State Universe
&t=5632s
30 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidHow many choices did you have to make to type?
Yes of course you prefer the story, but as you say, it's only a story, written down by people hundreds of years ago before we knew that which we know to day of evolution and science in general.
Let me give you an example by making a simple statement;
'I am a Dalek.'
There, that is written down so now you have to believe that I am a Dalek. See how it works?
...[text shortened]... e....'
Postscript; A working knowledge of 'Doctor Who' is required to fully understand this post.
"I am a Dalek"
How many key combinations? There were at least two (two key) combinations for the capital "I" and "D", and every other key stroke after that, choices had to be made to not turn a lower case letter into an upper case letter, and the selection of the proper keys to get just the words "am" and "a" with spaces between them. You want to tell me what the odds were for that to show up due to random taps on a key board. With each letter in each word with spaces direct choices were made, now with each letter you typed, what were the odds of one of them showing up all by themselves? How many keys does your keyboard have for just one letter to be done properly, let alone also taking into account upper or lower case?
We are not talking about anything but your small sentence, if you can tell us the odds on getting the first key stroke down, can you do the math for the rest too? Compared to life starting up randomly which is very complex, what are the odds of your example showing up through random key strokes?
I think people don't think things through, its easy to say science shows until you dig below the surface and ask what is really being said here!
If a story is written down as how something happen and it still has more answers than what we can come up in a our total existence I think you should weight what is truth without saying this is old so it cannot be true.
30 Jun 19
@indonesia-phil saidLove Dr. Who, favorite episode "blink"!
Yes of course you prefer the story, but as you say, it's only a story, written down by people hundreds of years ago before we knew that which we know to day of evolution and science in general.
Let me give you an example by making a simple statement;
'I am a Dalek.'
There, that is written down so now you have to believe that I am a Dalek. See how it works?
...[text shortened]... e....'
Postscript; A working knowledge of 'Doctor Who' is required to fully understand this post.
@kellyjay saidThe bible is not documented evidence of what happened written by God. It's someone's say-so. No more so than The Book of Mormon is God's documented evidence of what happened. No more so than the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads or Gilgamesh are God's documented evidence of what happened. It's someone's say-so. Those writings are what someone wanted people to believe, not evidence of what happened.
I don't claim a man is the creator of all things, but God did it, and God came to redeem mankind by becoming one of us. He did this after He laid a foundation of historical evidence and having it documented in scripture of what He was going to and why.
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The bible is not documented evidence of what happened written by God. It's someone's say-so. No more so than The Book of Mormon is God's documented evidence of what happened. No more so than the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads or Gilgamesh are God's documented evidence of what happened. It's someone's say-so. Those writings are what someone wanted people to believe, not evidence of what happened.
Much of it put forth as history reads like history to me.
Luke 3:1,2 -
"Now in the fifteenth year of the government of Tiberius Caesar, while Pontius Pilate was governing Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the country of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the sons of Zachariah, in the wilderness."
@sonship said@sonship
@moonbus
[quote] The bible is not documented evidence of what happened written by God. It's someone's say-so. No more so than The Book of Mormon is God's documented evidence of what happened. No more so than the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads or Gilgamesh are God's documented evidence of what happened. It's someone's say-so. Those writings are what someone wanted people t ...[text shortened]... of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the sons of Zachariah, in the wilderness." [/b]
Much of it put forth as history reads like history to me.
Luke 3:1,2 -
"Now in the fifteenth year of the government of Tiberius Caesar, while Pontius Pilate was governing Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the country of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the sons of Zachariah, in the wilderness."
The scrolls which were canonised were intended to read like history so people like you would believe it.
If you want to read the bible as history, then read it as you would Tacitus.
Tactitus's Annals is not evidence that there was once a battle in the Teutoburg Forest. It's a claim to be verified. Evidence looks like this: a field is dug up by archaeologists and artefacts are recovered. Archaeologists compare the recovered artefacts to other known artefacts to determine whether they are consistent with a battle such as Tacitus describes: broken bits of weapons and armor, broken bits of kit consistent with horses and a military encampment, and so on. Skeletal remains are recovered which bear marks of violence. Etc. Various methods are used to date the artefacts. The surrounding terrain is compared with the account given in Tacitus; geologists are consulted to determine whether the current terrain has undergone major changes (due to a river changing course, for example). Tacitus's claims, for example that the Roman legions were commanded by General Varus, are compared by historians and classical scholars with verifiable ancient sources to see whether there are any other referencers to a General Varus. Etc. That is what evidence looks like.
There is solid evidence, other than that they are mentioned in the bible, that Tiberius, Pilate, and Herod really existed; nor are any extraordinary claims made about these men, either in the bible or in any other ancient sources. These characters are unproblematic and require no extraordinary evidence.
Now, kindly provide evidence for the extraordinary claims in the bible. For example, that a man rose from the dead, that that man was born of a virgin, that that man was God incarnate (creator of life, the universe, and everything), that there was a flood which exterminated all life but for that on board a boat, that all of humanity is descended from one single family of Semites on a boat with all those animals, that all life appeared at once (give or take a day), that the Earth is the same age as the rest of the universe (give or take a few days).
@moonbus saidPlease if you look at scripture you will see that the Bible was written by ~40 different people, over a span of 1500 years from all walks of life, on 3 different continents, in 3 different languages. You can compare it to all the other works from other religions none of them compare to the writings of the Bible. The sources of these other scripture come close to that? Can modern races be traced historically through these other scripture as they can through the Bible's?
The bible is not documented evidence of what happened written by God. It's someone's say-so. No more so than The Book of Mormon is God's documented evidence of what happened. No more so than the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads or Gilgamesh are God's documented evidence of what happened. It's someone's say-so. Those writings are what someone wanted people to believe, not evidence of what happened.
It is without a doubt a book that contains historical accounts, and several other topics are within scripture too. The account of God through time touching the human race moving towards a goal fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
01 Jul 19
@moonbus saidThere is no such thing as extraordinary evidence, there may be evidence of extraordinary things, but unless you want God to jump through hoops for you, and that is not going to happen.
@sonship
[b]Much of it put forth as history reads like history to me.
Luke 3:1,2 -
"Now in the fifteenth year of the government of Tiberius Caesar, while Pontius Pilate was governing Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the country of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, in the high priesthood of ...[text shortened]... r take a day), that the Earth is the same age as the rest of the universe (give or take a few days).
01 Jul 19
@moonbus saidYou think people making claims about what might have happen billions of years ago is more valid than written accounts from people who lived through events?
The bible is not documented evidence of what happened written by God. It's someone's say-so. No more so than The Book of Mormon is God's documented evidence of what happened. No more so than the Bhagavad Gita or the Upanishads or Gilgamesh are God's documented evidence of what happened. It's someone's say-so. Those writings are what someone wanted people to believe, not evidence of what happened.