29 Jun 19
@sonship saidI am not the ONE making extraordinary claims in this thread.
What are the mathematical equations or scientific chemical formula equations which prove conclusively that God does not exist ?
Caissad4 ?
Please show your extraordinary proof for you extraordinary claims.
29 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidThat is a lie and you know it. If a Christian believes he is "defending the faith" is it admirable for that Christian to lie ?
You claim to know how everything didn’t begin without any knowledge of how it was done.
Have you any extraordinary proof for your extraordinary claim.
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29 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidI think there is a difference Kelly between knowing how something didn't begin (discounting something as a possibility) and claiming to know how something 'did' begin.
You claim to know how everything didn’t begin without any knowledge of how it was done.
For example, I know the world didn't begin as a result of a giant pixie having a sneeze. (I wasn't there of course in person to evidence this wasn't the cause, but still have no qualms in dismissing it as a possibility, as I'm sure you don't either) - . - And I know you don't like this part, but I feel exactly the same about the biblical account of creation or the idea that a God figure was responsible for creation. I 'know' everything didn't begin that way.
Naturally, you will then ask me, how did everything begin then? Honest answer, I'm not certain. Please note however that me not knowing doesn't give any extra credence to your explanation. (An explanation I know to be wrong). We are like 2 kids in school asked what the square root of 23458 is. I don't know the answer, but I do know your answer of 6 is incorrect.
29 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidSo far, all you've done is reject any evidence presented to you, without having provided a shred of evidence for the extraordinary claim that a man rose from the dead, much less for the even more extraordinary claim that that man was the creator of life, the universe, and everything. Maybe you should ponder the OP some more.
You are treating this as if it were a combination lock, not as chemical reactions!
The lock means there is correct sequence that is not true with chemical reactions with a limited number of chemicals and endless time. The reactions begin and your limited number of chemicals will react and they will alter themselves into something else reducing your number of chemicals as ti ...[text shortened]... kind of dry but it will not take to long for you to see why this isn't as simple as a deck of cards.
29 Jun 19
@sonship saidThe burden of proof is on those who make extraordinary claims, not on those who dispute them. I do not have to prove that pixies, kobolds, and garden fairies do not exist; those claim they do do. I do not have prove that werewolves do not exist; those who claim they do do. I do not have to prove that vampires do not exist; those who claim they do do. I do not have to prove that an alien space ship did not crash at Rosswell; those who claim one did do. I do not have prove that Joseph Smith did not have any golden tablets; those who claim he did do. I do not have to prove that an angel did not take the tablets up to heaven; those who believe he did do. I do not have to prove a man did not rise from the dead; those who claim someone did do. I do not have prove that that man was not the creator of life, the universe, and everything; those who claim he was do.
What are the mathematical equations or scientific chemical formula equations which prove conclusively that God does not exist ?
Caissad4 ?
In the absence of extraordinary proofs or extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims, we are entitled to dismiss them as not founded on rational considerations. They may be founded on other considerations, of course, but not on proofs or evidence.
29 Jun 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou can only discount anything with some knowledge as to why. If two school kids were debating the square root of 23458 and knew nothing of the math required to get to the real answer, how would they know the answer wasn't 6?
I think there is a difference Kelly between knowing how something didn't begin (discounting something as a possibility) and claiming to know how something 'did' begin.
For example, I know the world didn't begin as a result of a giant pixie having a sneeze. (I wasn't there of course in person to evidence this wasn't the cause, but still have no qualms in dismissing ...[text shortened]... t the square root of 23458 is. I don't know the answer, but I do know your answer of 6 is incorrect.
You can only know that with some grasp of numbers, and the beginning is no different. You have no explanation at all, none, unlike the numbers the whole question is a mystery and yet you claim you have enough knowledge to say God isn't the answer, why? How do you know? I'm not even attempting to pin this on the God of the Bible who I do believe in and believe did it. What is it you think you know that can say, no way that God did that?
If it cannot be shown it created itself, than something else did. We can go generation to generation in life, but if you go in reverse at some point there isn't a prior generation. The same thing with all of the universe as we go backwards, we can say from Z we go to Y, from Y we to X, but once we get to A we cannot say from A we get A. It must be something else, and unless you can give a reasonable answer why something that transcends this place you hit a wall that cannot be explained. This has to be evidence for something outside of the universe that can react to it on all levels.
29 Jun 19
@moonbus saidWhat evidence have you presented, a card game example that doesn't fit the question is not evidence on odds.
So far, all you've done is reject any evidence presented to you, without having provided a shred of evidence for the extraordinary claim that a man rose from the dead, much less for the even more extraordinary claim that that man was the creator of life, the universe, and everything. Maybe you should ponder the OP some more.
I believe CS Lewis' claim about God and our ability to recognize the supernatural, if we were not accustom to seeing reality in a fixed state govern by laws you couldn't grasp the supernatural when it occurs. Rising from the dead is a great validation of someone whose claims about being the Son of God were true. Predicting His own rising from the dead before it happened can also be called good proof he was telling the truth. Add that to all of the predictions about His life hundreds of years before He was born also gives validation to His and others claims about Him.
As I said, what is here is enough, it doesn't have to be extraordinary reality is good enough.
29 Jun 19
@moonbus saidI don't claim a man is the creator of all things, but God did it, and God came to redeem mankind by becoming one of us. He did this after He laid a foundation of historical evidence and having it documented in scripture of what He was going to and why.
So far, all you've done is reject any evidence presented to you, without having provided a shred of evidence for the extraordinary claim that a man rose from the dead, much less for the even more extraordinary claim that that man was the creator of life, the universe, and everything. Maybe you should ponder the OP some more.
29 Jun 19
@moonbus saidPick a topic will you, I was talking about creation and abiogenesis and now you are changing the topic to Jesus rising from the dead. Of course I didn't talk about claims about Him doing that, that wasn't the topic being discussed.
So far, all you've done is reject any evidence presented to you, without having provided a shred of evidence for the extraordinary claim that a man rose from the dead, much less for the even more extraordinary claim that that man was the creator of life, the universe, and everything. Maybe you should ponder the OP some more.
@kellyjay saidBecause even schoolkids know that 6 x 6 = 36, not 23458.
You can only discount anything with some knowledge as to why. If two school kids were debating the square root of 23458 and knew nothing of the math required to get to the real answer, how would they know the answer wasn't 6?
Furthermore, even schoolkids can deduce that no number ending in 8 (or 2, or 3, or 7) can have an integer square root.
29 Jun 19
@kellyjay saidRandom mutations occur in nature literally ALL the time.
DNA is a genetic code and its complexity dwarf out ability to understand it along with several other things about life. The size of DNA length turns the odds on random combinations odds down so low even with all the time in the universe given to make some of the simpler things occur about life beyond realistic.
Given a few billion years and enough fish, some will probably grow lungs. If they're not already in an environment that makes that a benefit, it will die out. Until the next time.